Talk:List of Virtual Console games for Wii U (North America)

Talk

New games added from nintendo's offical youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6V5NJ9ZKfPo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.180.58 (talk) 18:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Quit removing sources

Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance and Mario Party Advance are confirmed as they have been ESRB rated. (216.252.30.100 (talk) 04:06, 23 December 2014 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.30.100 (talk)

Sorry, but the community has determined that ESRB (and other ratings services, such as PEGI and OLFC) are similarly not reliable. Just because a game is rated doesn't mean it's going to be released; yes, it probably will, but it's not a sure thing. --McDoobAU93 04:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Wii U remakes of Wii games

As the January 2015 Nintendo Direct did not refer to the announced Wii U remakes of Wii games, including Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid Prime Trilogy, as part of the Virtual Console line, these should not be included here. If a reliable source appears that indicates these are intended to be Virtual Console games, then it should be considered. --McDoobAU93 19:38, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I would suggest that these maybe should be included in a new section, much like the 3D Classics on the 3DS page. Those games aren't listed anywhere to be Virtual Console titles either and the fact is that these games are downloadable titles of past consoles. They certainly aren't Virtual Console titles, but there has been an exception already in the case of 3D Classics, which are technically listed by Nintendo and Sega simply under downloadable titles for 3DS. Cloud789 (talk) 00:38, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

One, they're not remakes. They're the originals delivered as-is (like in Virtual Console). If we can list 3D classics, then we can surely list these. Editosaurus (talk) 01:14, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Makes all too much sense to include the Wii games on the Virtual Console page... like Virtual Console games, the Wii games on the eShop are literally just dumps of the original material being run through a compatibility mode, which is why they don't feature new controller options to replace waggle controls. It also makes more sense to include the future releases along with the other VC future releases instead of as their own section, just as the future releases for 3D Classics are handled on the 3DS page. Nathan DiYorio 7:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.233.98.112 (talk)

I had been contemplating how to handle this myself, prior to seeing any discussion on it. I wondered if it was enough to start a new list article, though I know we try not to have too many similar/redundant lists. I do understand McDoob's concerns - if Nintendo's not calling them VC, then we shouldn't either... Sergecross73 msg me 15:53, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Unfortunately, the existence of a similar list on another article is not reason enough for inclusion here. As Nintendo itself mentioned, these are converted titles, which would indeed make them similar to the 3D Classics available on Nintendo 3DS. However, the argument can also be made that as the Wii U can already run these titles as-is (through Wii Mode), this is just digital distribution of Wii software, something that wasn't previously available. In that regard, the games are no different than the digitally-distributed Wii U titles available now. Yes, they have added the ability to play with the Wii U GamePad, but a system update added the ability to use the GamePad as the display for Wii Mode, so there's no reason to think it wouldn't be possible to add the GamePad controls in a subsequent update (although obviously, this program makes that option moot).

Ultimately, we're all just speculating and making our own interpretations as to how this is being handled. Since Nintendo is not calling it Virtual Console, it doesn't belong here, and I would raise the same argument on the 3DS Virtual Console article's talk page and wait for consensus to shake out there before making any changes.

--McDoobAU93 15:56, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Do you feel its too small of a subset for its own article? (Honest question, I'm undecided myself.) Sergecross73 msg me 18:17, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I want to say that's why consensus formed around leaving the 3D Classics in the 3DS VC article. That said, there's been some growth in that, and some new articles detailing how the process works (Sega has published some in-depth discussions on its blog about how it converted After Burner II). It might be worth looking at a split for those titles, one that includes the intent, some of the methodology and finally the release list. As to these titles, it's just a second delivery method for something the console can already use, like choosing between disc and download for native Wii U software. --McDoobAU93 18:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, that makes sense, that's how I went about creating the Off TV Play article/list. I do agree, from what I've read, it seems like the "Digital Wii Games" are basically just shortcuts to Wii Mode on the Wii U home screen for a particular game, but still, I feel like the game's should be listed somewhere in some capacity at least, wherever consensus tells us is best. From what I've gathered from creating, writing, and maintaining the OTVP article, the inability to use the GamePad buttons/joystick on Wii Mode OTVP games was cited as a shortcoming by a lot of critics, so the fact that these digital titles do allow for that finally, strikes me as important to document/list somewhere. I guess even the OTVP article itself could work, though I don't know if that's ideal either... Sergecross73 msg me 19:19, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm tending to agree that these should not be on this article. No primary sources list them as Virtual Console games of any sort and most news articles are trying to avoid the usage of Virtual Console with these games as well. I think this may actually be different to the 3D Classics range as they seem to have been released in the place of those titles being released on Virtual Console (At least, the initial Nintendo 3D Classics range is such) and many places seem to list them alongside Virtual Console. I agree with McDoobAU93 that they shouldn't be included at all. Cloud789 (talk) 00:12, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

They just got rid of the Virtual Console banner, the games are still there but now they are just referring to them as "classic games". Now can we put up Wii games? Looney Guy — Preceding undated comment added 23:04, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "they just got rid of the Virtual Console banner". This page seems to suggest the VC name is alive and well, and the console is not shown alongside the NES, SNES and Game Boy Advance. --McDoobAU93 23:08, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

While that page is old and still refers to upcoming Game Boy Advance games, there are other official sources that still refer to Virtual Console. Using the search function to filter for Virtual Console games shows the Virtual Console games released recently and S.C.A.T. which we know to be coming on Thursday with no appearance by the Wii downloads. In addition, the game pages still have the generic paragraph about Virtual Console games down the bottom of the game description. Adding to this, Nintendo of Europe's search function shows Virtual Console games with the Virtual Console (Wii U) category while the Wii games get their own Wii download version (Wii U) category. I don't think the reference to Virtual Console being removed on the eShop means much quite yet. Cloud789 (talk) 05:02, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Mario Tennis for Nintendo 64

Please add this game since it's been ERSB rated (216.252.30.100 (talk) 04:15, 8 July 2015 (UTC))

There's been no announcement. Plenty of games get rated and then never released, such as GTA and GTAII for PS3. Ozdarka (talk) 09:12, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

The consensus is that ESRB is not reliable enough as a source for an edit on Wikipedia. Yes, this most likely means that Mario Tennis is coming to Virtual Console, but that would still be us guessing or making our own original analysis of the presented information. For all we know, the game may be playable as a component of Wii U's upcoming Mario Tennis title and not offered on Virtual Console at all. There is no rush, and we can wait until facts become clearer. --McDoobAU93 12:07, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Again with the ESRB

Continuing a saga that appears every few months, ESRB is reportedly rating a game (this time, Bonk's Adventure) that it previously rated and therefore the game is being released. As has been discussed ad nauseum on other VC articles, and on this talk page, ESRB and similar ratings boards have not been deemed reliable. Even if the game has been rated by the given board, that is no guarantee that the game is being launched. Again, as has been noted in the past, other games have been rated by ESRB yet never released. There is no deadline, and this is not intended to be the be-all-and-end-all source for VC info, so we can be patient and wait until something authoritative appears. --McDoobAU93 20:29, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Yoshi's Cookie

The source for "Yoshi's Cookie" as a Virtual Console title for Wii U is now 3 years old. All the other games featured in that video were released to the Virtual Console within months after its launch. Also taking into consideration that this title got delisted from the Wii Virtual Console (about half a year after this video was posted to Youtube), is there any evidence other than this video that suggests this title will get released to the Wii U Virtual Console? If the title should remain on the list of upcoming releases, I would think a source more recent than 3 years ago should be used. --S275ironman (talk) 22:08, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Delisting from the Wii Virtual Console would be a statement in personal observation, and with no other proof that the game will not be released, a dated video is still a valid source. Unless something is released that definitively states the game isn't being released, its release date is TBA since this video, produced by Nintendo, indicated it was to be released. --McDoobAU93 21:54, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

I understand where you are coming from. No source has said it isn't getting released. At the time of the video, it was a valid source. Something happened along the way that caused a delay. I just don't see why Nintendo would let that title sit in limbo for over 3 years. All the other titles in that video got released in less than a year. I don't see why 3 years later, this title would still not have been released. We don't know what is going on. It is just the fact that source is over 3 years old and there has been no release. Therefore, shouldn't the age of the source be taken into consideration? A removal from the list doesn't necessarily mean this game isn't getting released S275ironman (talk) 22:05, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

The age of the source is immaterial until something newer contradicts it. Yes things do change, however we have no evidence anything has changed. So what we need is a Nintendo statement that explicitly states that the game won't be released; this can include a statement that support for Wii U VC titles will end on a certain date in favor of Nintendo NX, or something like that. While technically it's not considered a proper source, if someone were to post on social media (Twitter/FB) asking outright if the game was coming, and an official statement said "no", I think it would be acceptable under the circumstances. --McDoobAU93 00:28, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Console manufacturers

This came up when Virtual Console started on Wii, and was settled then. The first reason is because Virtual Console includes content from other publishers, not just Nintendo, so it is appropriate to include who made the console/device in the section subheading. Second, we write for readers, not for ourselves; we must assume the reader has no idea what a Game Boy Advance is or who made it. We know enthusiasts know, but we can't make that assumption in an encyclopedia article. --McDoobAU93 16:29, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

But when they click on the link pointing to the Game Boy Advance, they will see it is made by Nintendo, so the wiki page itself says "Game Boy Advance" not "Nintendo Game Boy Advance" and to me, that's just too much of words to put it. And the other virtual console pages have the words "Game Boy Advance put in. I just don't think it fits in the page itself. Its a bit messed up if I think about it. Zacharyalejandro (talk) 17:00, 5 May 2016 (UTC)Zacharyalejandro

Since the headers are not supposed to be linked anyway, we can say more there and then provide the separate link. So your reason for changing it comes down to WP:IDONTLIKEIT, right? --McDoobAU93 17:17, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Placing Wii titles under the Virtual Console banner

While Wii titles do not have many of the other features that VC titles have (i.e. save states, restore points, controller configuration, etc.), many news outlets and Nintendo itself have been referring to Wii titles that have been digitally released as Virtual Console titles. I'm curious to see whether or not there is interest in adding a section to this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serplux (talk • contribs) 23:02, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

There already is a discussion on this page about this. Nintendo of America has errored several times on their own website by giving the Virtual Console designation to downloadable Wii titles. While some games are listed as Virtual Console games on NOA's website, some titles are not. The fact is, downloadble Wii games are not designated as Virtual Console titles on the Wii U eShop itself. With Virtual Console titles, before the game boots up, you will see a screen with the Virtual Console logo, the title of the game, its original year of release and the platform it was originally released on. With Wii titles, you don't get this. Also, while navigating through Nintendo's UK and Japan websites, their listings of Wii U Virtual Console games did not include any Wii titles. I fail to see the logic in why Nintendo would brand downloadable Wii titles as Virtual Console in one region, but not the others. S275ironman (talk) 11:30, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Sources that don't specify a release date

There is an ongoing debate over whether the YouTube sizzle reel from Nintendo should still be considered a valid source for including "Yoshi's Cookie" on the list of upcoming releases. Many people seem to be frustrated that is has been almost 4 years since the launch of the Wii U Virtual Console and the game hasn't released. Sometimes you just have to apply common sense when accessing the situation. Our only source is a video with just a few seconds of footage of the game. We don't have a quote from an actual person. We don't have a statement from a press release. We don't have a source that gives a specific release date. Yet, we don't allow a listing from the ESRB to be used because it doesn't specify a release date, and sometimes a game doesn't get released. How is this any different than allowing that YouTube video to be used as a source? Is it because it is a video from Nintendo? That should not matter. We should only use a source if it gives an exact release date (or window of release) for a game. I understand we don't have a source to back up any claim that the game won't get a release. But at the same time, do we really have a source that confirms that the game really is scheduled for a release? I don't think that video is enough evidence. I am not going to remove the game from the list, but at the same time, if someone else removes the game from the list, I will not add it back. I just think everyone who has an interest in keeping this page accurate and reliable for our readers should join this discussion. S275ironman (talk) 12:44, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Counting causes problems

Again, users are trying to imply that readers cannot count. There is no need for this count unless it has a bona-fide source, not a user (who, as well meaning as they may be, can make a mistake ... we are human, after all) manually counting things, which is what our users would do on their own anyway. --McDoobAU93 12:21, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

The inclusion of counts does not presume that users cannot count, but that it's impractical to expect them to count when there are large lists (especially when lists have numbers of items as large as 94). To address the second point, counting and sorting are not original research; if the list is sufficiently sourced, any count of the list also is. The fact that mistakes can be made in counting is precisely why they do belong on the page; if they are placed on the page they will be checked by multiple people. The counts should not be removed from the page (including the overall count, although you didn't attempt to remove that one). --SnorlaxMonster 15:39, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

The total count is sourcable to Nintendo's website. The individual counts are not ... and who decides if it's impractical? That's where consensus comes from. --McDoobAU93 17:22, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Incidentally, Nintendo's count doesn't match the one here, which raises a problem. As such, the total count has been removed pending sourcing and verification. --McDoobAU93 17:29, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

If the list is large enough that a person is substantially likely to make an error performing the count themselves, it is impractical to count by definition. You acknowledged yourself that this is a concern for a list of this size, so there would appear to be a consensus that the lists by game are so large that they are impractical to count (since you seem to be the only one opposed to including the counts on this page). I think the solution that was already implemented on the page was a reasonable way of addressing this.

Regarding citing Nintendo's site for the counts, their site does not accurately reflect the state of the Nintendo Wii U eShop. It counts the games that are listed on the site, but it doesn't list every game that is available on the eShop. Excluding the TurboGrafx-16 (due to the Nintendo site not separating those games from Wii games), here are differences between the games listed on this page and on Nintendo's site: NES, SNES, N64, GBA, DS. The games missing from Nintendo's site are listed here; additionally, Mario Kart 64 is mis-classified as a SNES game on Nintendo's site. If you check the eShop, you'll find that all of those missing games are in fact available (and Mario Kart 64 is correctly classified as a N64 game). Furthermore, using the eShop, you can actually get counts for each of the Virtual Console systems, as follows: 94 NES games, 51 SNES games, 74 GBA games, 21 N64 games, 31 DS games, and 20 TurboGrafx-16 games.

Since the counts were already on the page and there is now a source (despite a source being unnecessary for such counts), I have restored them until there is consensus to remove them. The source is useful regardless, since it supports the validity of the lists themselves (from which the counts are derived). --SnorlaxMonster 02:54, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

A source works because, as has been clearly pointed out, mistakes can be made, and now we have a fall-back position. --McDoobAU93 13:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC)