Talk:List of University of Edinburgh people

Alumni, or alumni and faculty?

Shouldn't this list be only alumni? If one wants a list of faculty, shouldn't that be at a list entitled thus? --Bob 07:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Alumnus says, "Recently, the definition of "alumni" has expanded to include people who have departed from any kind of organization or program." This list uses this expanded reading. — Michael Fourman 05:22, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Then it should be seperated out into actual alumni and former staff. --Bob 15:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess you mean "graduates and former staff". I dont think that would make the article easier to digest, and these categories overlap. Each linked entry makes the status clear. I will add a clarification at head of article — Michael Fourman 20:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Tom MacMaster

Given the eminent status of almost all the people named on the list, Tom MacMaster does not deserve to be here. He perpetrated the hoax, pretending to be a Syrian lesbian Amina Abdallah Arraf al-Omari for personal gain, and caused a campaign to free "her" when he claimed she had been arrested by Syrian police. This set back the cause of the Syrian opposition, and LGBT community. Unfortunately, he has been editing Wikipedia with a variety of IP addresses and at least one sock puppet: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Joatsimeon/Archive and will seek to have his name here. I have removed it, and will keep a friendly eye out to try and stop it being added again. Abigailgem (talk) 09:07, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Table/chart

Hi, an editor changed one section of this article to table format, which didn't work for several reasons: It didn't work with the photos. It didn't match the rest of the article. It didn't match standard Wikipedia style for these alumni list articles. I'd like to also remind editors to fill out the edit summary when they make each edit. Thank you! Softlavender (talk) 01:31, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

The argument seems to stem from the fact that List of Harvard University people is styled like this (I don't doubt that the alumni added are legitimate). I notice that List of University of Oxford people and List of University of Cambridge members are both in the bullet style. Personally I think the photos add to the article, I would suggest that the info in the table is summarised and presented as for the other bulleted alumni. Only my opinion though, maybe it could be argued that for presenting facts, the table is neater?

I'd also just make a note that the Harvard list is far better referenced than this one - maybe this should be something to strive towards here? --Amkilpatrick (talk) 08:36, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Since the info is so detailed, I now think the chart system is best for what has been added (assuming we want to keep that level of detail in the Medical section). In point of fact all the photos can be added back into the article -- they just need to be placed so they don't occur in, or run into, the chart section. I didn't have time (nor the immediate knowledge of who each person was exactly in terms of occupation and notability) to arrange them properly, but someone can soon, I'm sure. Softlavender (talk) 09:13, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Images deleted to make room for the chart

I've removed images (commented out below; to view go to editing mode) till we figure out which to move or delete. This number of images will not work with the newly added table/chart, so if the chart is going to stay, we should cull these images, or place some of them in sections lower down than the chart.

Removed charts which combine categories incorrectly

I've removed the following two charts from the article, as they were in the Medicine/Physicians section, but they do not refer to physicians, and in fact there are far too many genres in each chart to post them in the article. I invite the creator of the charts, Captain108, or anyone else, to divide up the separate entries into their proper categories/genres and re-post accordingly. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 01:44, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Pioneers in science and humanities

Name	Class year	Notability	Reference(s)
James Hutton	1747	Scottish physician, geologist, known for theories on Deep time and Gaia Hypothesis
Joseph Black	MD 1754	Scottish physician and chemist, discoverer of carbon dioxide, latent heat and specific heat
Erasmus Darwin	1755	physician, poet, author and evolutionary biologist.
Daniel Rutherford	MD 1772, Prof. Medicine and Botany 1786-1819	Scottish physician, chemist and botanist, first to isolate nitrogen in 1772
Thomas Charles Hope	MD 1787, Prof. Medicine and Chemistry 1799-1843	Scottish physician, chemist, discovered the element strontium, demonstrated that water reached its maximum density at 4C in an experiment called Hope's experiment, President of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh
Robert Brown	1793	Scottish botanist, named and described the cell nucleus and cytoplasmic streaming, discovered Brownian motion, discovered the difference between gymnosperms and angiosperms
Thomas Brown	MD 1803	Scottish metaphysician
William Prout	MD 1811	English physician and chemist, known for Prout's hypothesis, discovered hydrochloric acid in the stomach and improved the barometer
James Braid	1814	Scottish surgeon, pioneer of hypnotism and hypnotherapy
Robert Edmond Grant	MD 1814	Scottish physician, biologist, mentor of Charles Darwin
Richard Owen	1825	English biologist, coined the word Dinosauria, opponent of the theory of evolution
Charles Darwin	1827	English naturalist, published the theory of evolution, author of On the Origin of Species and The Descent of Man
David Boswell Reid	MD 1830	Scottish physician, inventor, expert on ventilation, President of the Royal Medical Society
Charles Wyville Thomson	MD 1845	Chief scientist of the Challenger expedition, discovered animal life at depths of 1200m
John Kirk	MD 1854	Scottish physician, botanist, companion of David Livingstone, identified the Zanzibar Red Colobus, British Consul in Zanzibar
Alexander Crum Brown	MA 1858, MD 1861, Prof. Chemistry 1869-1908	Scottish physician and chemist, discovered the double bond of ethylene, introduced the name kerogen for insoluble organic matter in oil shale.
John Anderson	MD 1862	Scottish zoologist, first curator of the Indian Museum in Calcutta
Neil Gordon Munro	MB 1888, CM 1888, MD 1909	Scottish physician, anthropologist, one of the first people to study the Ainu people of Hokkaido

Other accomplishments

Name	Class year	Notability	Reference(s)
John Moultrie	MD 1749	American politician, acting governor of East Florida
Samuel Seabury	1753	first American Episcopal bishop, first bishop of Connecticut
Oliver Goldsmith	1754	Anglo-Irish novelist, playwright, author of the novel The Vicar of Wakefield and the children's tale of The History of Little Goody Two-Shoes
William Buchan	MD 1761	Author of the book "Domestic Medicine"
Gustavus Richard Brown	MD 1768	United States Representative from Maryland, physician at George Washington's deathbed.
Thomas Tudor Tucker	MD 1770	United States Representative from South Carolina, longest serving Treasurer of the United States, presidential physician to James Madison
Henry Latimer	MD 1775	United States Senator from Delaware
George Logan	MD 1779	United States Senator from Pennsylvania
William Crawford	MD 1781	United States Representative from Pennsylvania's 5th and 6th Congressional districts
Samuel L. Mitchill	MD 1786	United States Senator from New York
Mungo Park	1791	Scottish explorer, first westerner to have travelled to the Niger River
James Jones	MD 1796	United States Representative from Virginia
William Jardine	MD 1802	Co-founder of Hong Kong conglomerate Jardine, Matheson and Company, Whig MP for Ashburton
John Crawfurd	MD 1803	Scottish physician, Governor of Singapore
James C. Crow	MD 1822	Scottish inventor of the sour mash proceess for creating Bourbon whiskey, creator of the Old Crow brand of Bourbon whiskey
Samuel Smiles	MD 1832	Scottish author and biographer, wrote the book Self-Help
John Rae	MD 1833	Scottish explorer, discovered the fate of the Franklin Expedition, discovered Rae Straight, showed that King William Land was an island
David Monro	MD 1835	Speaker of the New Zealand House of Representatives, MP representing Waimea
William Johnston Almon	1836	Nova Scotian physician, Canadian Senator from Nova Scotia, Canadian MP for Halifax
Logan Campbell	MD 1839	New Zealand physician, Mayor of Auckland, co-founder of Auckland Savings Bank, Superintendent of Auckland, known as the "Father of Auckland"
Sir Charles Tupper	MD 1843	6th Prime Minister of Canada and father of confederation
Valentine Munbee McMaster	MD 1853	British army surgeon, recipient of the Victoria Cross, for the intrepidity with which he exposed himself to the fire of the enemy, in bringing in, and attending to, the wounded, on the 25th of September, at Lucknow
William Henry Thomas Sylvester	LRCS(Edin) 1853	British army surgeon, recipient of the Victoria Cross, for coming to the aid of an officer who was mortally wounded and remained with him, dressing his wounds, in a most dangerous and exposed situation on the 8th of September, and again on the 18th of September.
Campbell Mellis Douglas	MD 1861	Canadian army surgeon, recipient of the Victoria Cross, for risking their lives in manning a boat and proceeding through dangerous surf to rescue some of their comrades who had been sent to the island to find out the fate of the commander and seven of the crew.
Henry Halcro Johnston	MB 1880, CM 1880, MD 1893, BSc 1893, DSc 1894	Scottish botanist, represented Scotland internationally in rugby union, Colonel in the British Army
William Babtie	LRCP(Edin) 1880, LRCS(Edin) 1880	Scottish surgeon, recipient of the Victoria Cross, he exposed himself to heavy fire to tend to the wounded including going with Captain Walter Norris Congreve to bring in Lieutenant Frederick Hugh Sherston (The Hon.) Roberts who was lying wounded on the veldt during the Second Boer War, Lieutenant General in the British Army
Arthur Ignatius Conan Doyle	MB 1881, CM 1881, MD 1885	novelist, creator of the character Sherlock Holmes
John Batty Tuke	MB 1881, CM 1881, MD 1890	Scottish psychiatrist, Conservative MP for the University of Edinburgh and St Andrews
Robert Stirton Thornton	MB 1884, CM 1884	Minister of Education for Manitoba, President of the Medical Council of Canada
George Ernest Morrison	MD 1895	Australian adventurer, The Times correspondent in Peking during Boxer Rebellion
Henry Edward Manning Douglas	LRCP(Edin) 1898, LRCS(Edin) 1898	Scottish surgeon, recipient of the Victoria Cross, he showed great gallantry and devotion under a very severe fire in advancing in the open and attending to Captain Gordon, Gordon Highlanders, who was wounded, and also attending to Major Robinson and other wounded men under a fearful fire. Many similar acts of devotion and gallantry were performed by Lieutenant Douglas on the same day, Major General in the British Army
Alec Boswell Timms	LRCP(Edin) 1903, LRCS(Edin) 1903	Scottish-Australian rugby union forward, played for Scotland and participated in the 1899 British Lions tour to Australia
Bernard Friedman	MB 1921, ChB 1921	South African surgeon, co-founder of the anti-apartheid Progressive Party
Robert McIntyre	MB 1938, ChB 1938	Scottish politician, leader of the Scottish National Party from 1947-56, first SNP MP for Motherwell
Hastings Banda	MB 1941, ChB 1941	Malawian politician, 1st President of Malawi from 1966 to 1994
Lim Chong Eu	MB 1944, ChB 1944	Malaysian politician, served as Chief Minister of Penang for a record 21 years, co-founder and president of Parti Gerakan Rakyat Malaysia
Kerry Lang	MB 1998, ChB 1998	British triathelete, British Triathlon Vice Champion of the Year 2009

References

Proposal regarding the chart system versus the bullet system

It seems to me that the bullet system is by far the preferred format in Alumni list articles across Wikipedia. It also seems to me that the creator of the charts in this article has pretty much only done physicians and other medical-related personnel. It also seems to me that the medical personnel charts are far too detailed and far too comprehensive to be included with the rest of this bulletted WP:List article, because they make the article very hard to read, and they obscure the bulletted sections, and they prevent the presence of images. For all those reasons, I propose that these medical charts be moved to a separate article called something like Edinbugh University medical people or List of Edinbugh University medical people or something like that, and that we link it from this article. I think this solves all of our problems, which seem to be growing, not diminishing. It is easily accomplished by reverting the article to the way it was on 5 February 2014. Does anyone disagree with this proposal? Softlavender (talk) 02:21, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS: The charts were created without discussion/consensus and without regard to the format of the rest of the article. This is against Wikipedia policies, not the least of which are not to change the format of part of an article in contravention to the format rest of the article, and not to massively change the format system of an article without discussion and consensus. I think these are additional reasons to put the charts in a separate article. Softlavender (talk) 02:35, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, creating a new List of University of Edinburgh medical people article seems like a sensible suggestion, presumably the bullet list could be kept at this page. I'm not so sure a simple revert would be enough, but it would be a good starting point for sure. Amkilpatrick (talk) 13:52, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

OK, I did this now before any further additions are made to the article. Obviously, bulletted additions which were added from 6 February 2014 till today (13 October 2014), will largely have to be reinstated (but not as charts, please). Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 01:50, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Bulletted names which were added between 12 February 2014 and 13 October 2014 will largely have to be reinstated

Due to the need to revert the article to its original form prior to the addition of some charts, any BULLETTED items which were added between 12 February 2014 and 13 October 2014 will largely have to be reinstated. We realize this is inconvenient, but any help making the re-instatements is appreciated. Here is one source for the names, but only look at the bulletted names, not the chart names: [1]. Softlavender (talk) 05:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Note to Captain108

Note to Captain108: Please see the various discussions on this Talk page. Please do not remove items from the list. We have moved your charts to a separate article, as they did not conform to the rest of the article. It's OK that there are duplications between the two articles, but do not remove bulleted names from this list. Please make sure that all of your edits conform with Wikipedia policies. Please do not change or revert cited material unless you provide a reliable source citation. It's OK to separate medics and biologists, but it's not OK to remove bulletted names from the list. Thank you very much. Softlavender (talk) 21:13, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

My charts have been moved to a separate article. I am ok with that, however I am very concerned as the medics list on this page is very incomplete. Putting medics and biologists as the title will confuse readers as the list of medics is perhaps a small fraction of the real list. If we are to move the medics list to a separate article we need to move all of them, not just a majority of them. My edits were intended to make a separate list for biologists and direct the medics list to this separate article.

I have every intention of improving this article by placing all sections under a table. I have always found that the brief title given about each person listed in these articles is not enough. More needs to be explained about their accomplishments in life. I have tried to emulate Harvard's alumni list however I just haven't had the time to make all these changes yet. If anyone would like to help me on this project I would be very grateful.

However, you reverted my edits which added 2014's laureates in medicine to Edinburgh's alumni list. It is very clear that Edinburgh has 20 nobel laureates. Please re-add these alumni. Captain108 (talk) 21:41, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Captain, please review what I wrote above. To repeat: It's OK to separate medics and biologists, but it's not OK to remove bulletted names from the list. Also, it's not OK to change the format of an article without Talk page discussion and consensus. The consensus so far is that this article should not be in chart form. So please do not proceed with your plan, although if you want to make separate sub-articles as with the List of University of Edinburgh medical people in chart form, that would be fine. You are free to add any bulleted items to the list. If "It is very clear that Edinburgh has 20 nobel laureates", then you need to provide a WP:RS citation to that effect, or a footnote listing all 20, with links to their Wikipedia articles for verification. I made the mass deletion of all of your edits because that was the most efficient way to deal with the problem, as carefully weeding through what you had done would have been too time-consuming. You are free to add or differentiate whatever is appropriate, but you are not free either to delete names or to change cited material without verification. Thanks. I hope that's clear. Softlavender (talk) 22:04, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

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