Talk:Lieutenancy areas of Scotland

noticeably different?

With the exception of Western Isles being its own county, and the four traditional cities having, as they always have, their own lieutenants, is this really noticeably different from the old counties that existed after Ross and Cromarty were combined and the various exclaves eliminated in 1890? There were 33 counties then (not including the four cities, for a total of 37), and 35 now, with the differences being in the joining of Bute to Argyll and Kinross to Perth in the current lieutenancy areas. As it stands now, we seem to be suggesting that the division of lieutenancy areas is just as different from the traditional counties as it is from all the others, when in fact it is quite similar. john k 02:25, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

This article really ought to clarify what happened to the Lieutenancy areas in the 1975 and 1996 re-arrangements. The article as it stands gives a good description of the current areas, but is vague about what preceded them. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:31, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I get the impresssion there have been no boundary changes, except as a result of changes to boundaries of cities of Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, and Glasgow, since 1975. Is this true? I have not yet had an opportunity to read the Lord-Lieutenants Order 1975.
The current Ross and Cromarty lieutenancy area, by the way, is really very different from the old county. It includes Skye, which was within the county of Inverness, and excludes an area which is now within the Sutherland lieutenancy.
Laurel Bush (talk) 10:38, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

There isn't really much in the 1975 order that isn't in the article: the definitions come from the schedule to the order. Not sure if there was much in the way of boundary changes in 1996, but we could add another column with changed definitions in The Lord-Lieutenants (Scotland) Order 1996. One fairly major change in 1975 was the creation of Stirling and Falkirk at the expense of a big chunk of Perthshire.Lozleader (talk) 12:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

1975 seems to be the more important date as regards changes to definitions of areas, with the 1996 order generally preserving what was established in 1975. Would be nice, though, to have clear confirmation of this impression. I am trying at present to get hold of a copy of the 1975 order.
Laurel Bush (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I have the 1975 order, and it really doesn't contain very much more than what is in the article. It simply lists the names of the existing lord-lieutenants for counties, and the parts of the regions to which they are assigned. The description of the aras is exactly, word for word, as we have in the article.

There was also The Deputy Lieutenants (Scotland) Reallocation Order 1975 (S.I. 1975 No. 669), which (fairly obviously) reallocated the existing deputy lieutenants to the new "district of the city or part of the region". It defines the same areas in slightly different terms:

• The county of Aberdeen as existing before 16th May 1975 except the electoral divisions of Bucksburn, Newhills Landward, Old Machar and Stoneywood and the Parishes of Dyce and Peterculter.
• The district of Angus
• The district of Berwickshire
• The district of Clackmannan
• The districts of Dumbarton, Clydebank, Bearsden and Milngavie, Strathkelvin and Cumbernauld and Kilsyth
• The district of the city of Dundee
• The district of the city of Edinburgh
• The district of the city of Glasgow
• The county of Kincardine as existing before 16th May 1975 except the electoral division of Nigg
• The districts of Monklands, Motherwell, Hamilton, East Kilbride and Lanark
• The district of Midlothian
• The district of Nairn
• The districts of Eastwood, Renfrew and Inverclyde
• The districts of Stirling and Falkirk
• The district of Tweeddale
• The district of West Lothian

Those are the only ones it lists. presuambly there were no deputy lieutenants in the other counties.

It might be as well to restate the relevant section of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973:

205.—(1) Her Majesty shall appoint for each region such number of lord-lieutenants as she thinks fit, shall appoint a lord-lieutenant for each islands area and may appoint lieutenants for each region and islands area.

(2) The Lord Provost of the cities of Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow shall by virtue of his office be lord-lieutenant for the district of the city concerned and Her Majesty may appoint lieutenants for each such district.

(3) Lord-lieutenants and lieutenants appointed for a region under subsection (1) above shall discharge their functions in such parts of the region as may be determined by Order in Council made by Her Majesty.

(4) Any reference in any enactment passed before or during the same session as this Act or any instrument made before the passing of this Act to a lieutenant of a county shall be construed as a reference to the lord-lieutenant holding office for an area by virtue of this section.

(5) The persons appointed under section 32 of the Militia Act 1882 to act for the lord-lieutenant as vice-lieutenant shall be known as vice-lord-lieutenants and the references to deputy lieutenants in section 30(4) of that Act (displacement of deputy lieutenants) shall include references to vice-lord-lieutenants.

(6) The persons who may be appointed under section 31 of the said Act of 1882 to act as lord-lieutenant of an area or who may be appointed a vice-lord-lieutenant of an area under section 32 of that Act shall include a lieutenant for the area appointed under this section.

(7) Her Majesty may by Order in Council provide that any lieutenant holding office immediately before 16th May 1975 shall continue to hold office on and after that date as lord-lieutenant for such part of a region as may be specified in the Order or for an islands area.

(8) Any deputy lieutenant holding office immediately before that date shall continue to hold office on and after that date as deputy lieutenant of the part of the region, islands area or district of the city in which he resides or of such other area as may be specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.

(9) Where an Order in Council is made in pursuance of subsection (3) above, any deputy lieutenant holding office immediately before the date on which the Order in Council is made shall continue to hold office on and after that date as deputy lieutenant of the part of the region in which he resides or of such other part as may be specified in the Order in Council.

(10) Subsections (7) to (9) above shall not prejudice any power of removal or of directing removal from any office.

(11) In this section ‘region’ does not include the districts of the cities of Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Lozleader (talk) 15:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Cheers.
Laurel Bush (talk) 11:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Unique right

The Lord Provosts of Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, and Glasgow also act ex officio as lord-lieutenants. This is a unique right in the United Kingdom: all other lord-lieutenants are appointed by the monarch, rather than being elected politicians. What about the Lord Mayor of the City of London? MRSC • Talk 09:28, 10 May 2008 (UTC)