Talk:Liberal arts education/Archives/2017

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Liberal Arts including science, engineering, and math

I was unaware that Liberal Arts included science, engineering, and math. Maybe the article should specify that these subjects are briefly reviewed. I would be shocked to find a scientist, engineer, or mathematician claim his academic discipline is within the "Liberal Arts." 68.50.119.13 (talk) 20:31, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Many, many liberal arts colleges offer degrees in science, engineering and math. They are not just "briefly reviewed". -- Fyrael (talk) 20:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I am not saying liberal arts colleges do not offer the degree. I am saying the curriculum would not be referred to as liberal arts. Instead of Bachelors of Arts for liberal arts, it would be a Bachelors of Science for science, engineering, and math. 68.50.119.13 (talk) 02:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

It's about history see Wagner, David Leslie (1983). The Seven liberal arts in the Middle Ages. Indiana University Press. ISBN 9780253351852. Retrieved 31 August 2013. also at questia [1] I will try to add some now that I'm back on line. J8079s (talk) 18:08, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Abelson, Paul (1906). The seven liberal arts: a study in mediæval culture. Teachers' College, Columbia University. Retrieved 31 August 2013. Free at google books its old but you can't beat the price J8079s (talk) 21:08, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

I am a physicist, and was a professor of physics for 13 years. I consider physics to be within the "liberal arts." Aside from the historical origins of the terms and the organization within existing educational systems, I use a simple test: are there jobs that require a bachelor's degree in the specific field in order to be eligible? For the liberal arts, including the natural sciences, the answer is generally no; an English major who took pre-med courses and has laboratory experience can compete for the same jobs as a biology major. For vocational majors, such as engineering, accounting, and nursing, that is not generally the case. While not a perfect test, it does suggest that the natural sciences are appropriately grouped with the humanities and social sciences under the heading of "liberal arts."SarahLawrence Scott (talk) 01:52, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

In Helsinki University and other universities in Finland, a person graduating with a major in Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry etc. is titled "Filosofian maisteri" (Magister Philosophiae, Master of Philosophy), just like a major in Slavic philology or in Art History, because of the influence of Humboldtian system where all these disciplines are regarded as Wissenschaften. However, a person majoring in some kind of engineering will generally become "Diplomi-insinööri" (Diploma Engineer), because his discipline is seen to be more "practical" and "technical", not so much geared towards the "pure research". Engineering was historically studied in "technical colleges" and the modern "technical universities" are still mostly separate. "Luonnontieteiden maisteri" (Master of (Natural) Sciences) isn't used, because the distinction between "hard" and "soft" sciences isn't so prevalent here and it is more about the distinction between "scientific/philosophical knowledge" and "technical/practical/vocational knowledge". JJohannes (talk) 16:27, 3 August 2017 (UTC)