Talk:Lewis Ludington/GA1

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Reviewer: Edge3 (talk · contribs) 02:58, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I will be happy to conduct this review. Edge3 (talk) 02:58, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • General
    • Add wikilinks for the first occurrence of all place names
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • Lead
    • Please verify the date of death. This source, which you list in the 'External Links' section, indicates that he died on September 3, not September 10
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 10:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • Would it be possible to provide more detail in the first sentence? It seems very generic to simply state that he was "an American businessman, lumber baron, and real estate developer", without explaining his primary claim to notability. Having said that, MOS allows for some flexibility here. See MOS:FIRST ("For topics notable for only one reason, this reason should usually be given in the first sentence.") but compare another rule from the same section ("Try to not overload the first sentence by describing everything notable about the subject."). Also see MOS:ROLEBIO ("The lead sentence should describe the person as they are commonly described in reliable sources.") but compare the subsequent sentence from the same section ("The noteworthy position(s) or role(s) the person held should usually be stated in the opening paragraph." (emphasis added)).
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:23, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • You likely don't need to link "American businessman" in the first sentence. Possibly "lumber baron" and "real estate developer" as well. See MOS:CONTEXTLINK
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:54, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • Try to make the lead longer, by summarizing all of the main points from the article.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:54, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]




  • Early life


    • Write this section in chronological order. You don't mention when he was born, and the name of his eldest sister, until the very end of this section, after you'd already written about his military service and his family.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • The "Family (Excluding Siblings)" section is redundant with this one, and should be consolidated.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • You mention what he was doing at age 21 (helping wounded soldiers) in the "Early life" section, yet you discuss what he was doing at age 20 (general merchandising) in the "Mid life and career" section.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC) Copy edited this section completely, as that was about his father Henry and it caused confusion the way it was previously written.[reply]


  • Mid life and career


    • "A year or so later(,) Burchard retired(,) and the firm became Ludington and Company(,) with Harrison's younger brother ..." - Add commas in the indicated places. Alternatively, this sentence would have so many commas that you may need to split it into separate sentences.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • Columbus, Wisconsin
    • The name of the section could be expanded to "Founding of Columbus, Wisconsin"
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • Link "buy-out". Note that buyout doesn't use the hyphen, so perhaps you could verify what the correct spelling/punctuation should be.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • "Other settlers that arrived were ..." - How is this relevant to Ludington's biography? This info seems more relevant to the Columbus, Wisconsin article rather than Ludington himself.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • "Lewis recorded..." - Who is Lewis? Is he the James T. Lewis referenced in the prior paragraph? Maybe elaborate on his role.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]




    • You mention a lot of the plats, and how they were recorded in the Recorder's office. Not sure why this level of detail is necessary. If possible, consider focusing on only the most important plats
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • Is "West Columbus" a separate place? Might be helpful to provide a wikilink (if available).
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • Maybe you could mention in this section that he was residing in Carmel, New York, rather than waiting until the "Death" section to share this information.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • Death
    • This section is very short. Also, his death occurred in 1857, right at the end of the section about Columbus, Wisconsin. (There's no gap between his life in Columbus and his death.) Therefore, you should consolidate these sections.
    •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


@Doug Coldwell: Note that I have not yet read the references. I will look through those in the next part of my review. I hope these comments are helpful feedback for now. Edge3 (talk) 05:12, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I'll take a look later today or tomorrow. I have not yet checked your sources, so I'll post additional comments as needed. Edge3 (talk) 17:09, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Mid life and career: "Ludington was twenty when he partnered with his elder brother Frederick to operate a general merchandising store near their home in Kent, New York" - I couldn't find this info mentioned in the source. Could you please check the source again and let me know where I can find it? Edge3 (talk) 17:41, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Edge3: Replaced with a better reference for this. Go to the Johnson (1907) source and type in the search box in quotes "who with his brother Lewis engaged" and it will indicate where it found this on page 217. Will that work?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:07, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Edge3: Also it can be found in Google of the Downs source, type "Lewis Ludington" Frederick "of twenty opened a store with his older brother" = gives Snippet view of Downs reference. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:50, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Edge3: Johnson source (1907) page 224 wording is -The sixth son and youngest child of Colonel Henry Ludington was Lewis Ludington, who was born in Fredericksburgh on June 25, 1786. At the age of twenty he engaged with his elder brother Frederick in conducting a general store near their home. A few years later he married Polly Townsend, the daughter and oldest child of Samuel Townsend. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:20, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
     Done This change looks good to me! Thanks. I'll keep checking the rest of the content. I'm a bit delayed right now; I was expecting to make more progress yesterday evening, but I got distracted by other errands. I do intend to keep this review moving day-by-day. Edge3 (talk) 21:39, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • Bruce 1922, p. 121 - I'm not quite sure how this source is supporting the article. The only relevant info from the source appears to be the fact that Ludington & Co. was "composed of Lewis Ludington, Harrison Ludington, and Harvey Birchard". However, would it be fair to say that it's a primary source? In any case, the info is similarly supported by Johnson 1901, pp. 218–225.


  • Regarding the schooner Lewis Ludington, which was "used to transport harvested lumber across Lake Michigan from Wisconsin and ultimately back to New York state by train and wagon", where is this supported in the source? In Johnson 1907, the only relevant content I could find was in page 224, which states only that wood was transported from Green Bay to Buffalo. The source doesn't appear to mention movement by train or wagon. Edge3 (talk) 23:39, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done copy edited for just train and furnished new reference. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • Founding of Columbus, Wisconsin
    • "There was one other log cabin constructed on this property by Hiram Allen in 1843 not far from the sawmill." - The source states that the first frame house was "near the mill", but this doesn't appear to apply to the second frame house. Could you please clarify?
  • The wording on page 228 says, ...the log cabin of Major Dickason on the Crawfish and that of Hiram Allen, not far from the mill, constituted the entire Village of Columbus. To me this is two log cabins, one owned by Major Dickason and the other by Hiram Allen. To me they are BOTH not far from the mill. Will this work? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 12:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sure, that works. Please add the extra source to the article. Edge3 (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Jeremiah Drake became the local real estate agent..." - the source merely states "agent" for the "management of early affairs in Columbus". Does this necessarily pertain to real estate specifically? = YES.
  •  Done page 229 says, Jeremiah Drake, as the agent of Mr. Ludington, succeeded Dickason in the management of the property on the Crawfish, and built the first frame house in the place. My 15 years experience as a California real estate says that the log cabins on the Crawfish plus the frame house Drake built there and the trees growing on the land there on the Crawfish used for making lumber constitute real property (real estate), not personal property. Since Drake managed all this that makes him a real estate agent, not a personal property agent. Anything permanently attached to land (i.e. trees, log cabins) are real estate. The horse and buggy (wagon) that move and are not permanently attached to the ground is personal property. The paragraph goes on to give the names of settlers and where they located their homes. This management of the exact placement of the homes on Lewis Ludington's property from 1841 to 1845 as to where they built their homes was managed by Drake = real estate agent. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


    • "...managing the property in Wisconsin..." - The source appears to limit this to Columbus only. Did Ludington have property elsewhere in Wisconsin? = YES
At the beginning of the paragraph I wrote that he acquired a section of land in Columbus County in 1838. A section is 640 acres. He could afford to buy this much land because of the profits made at the general merchandising store he owned from 1806 to 1838. See the section of Mid life and career that gives details of him going to Wisconsin with the idea of purchasing extensive tracts of land for timber. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:30, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In the citation, Butterfield 1880, p. 666 mentions only Drake's management of affairs in Columbus, but it's unclear to me whether this applies to the village or the county as a whole. Edge3 (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "...whose home was in New York state" - The source doesn't mention that he resided in New York. While this is verified by other sources, the synthesis of these facts appears to be WP:OR. Edge3 (talk) 04:40, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Johnson (1907) source says, For several years after their marriage Lewis and Polly Townsend Ludington lived in a cottage near the Ludington homestead at Fredericksburgh, or Kent, as it was then renamed. Then, in the spring of 1816, they removed to the village of Carmel, where soon after Lewis Ludington bought property which is still owned by members of the family. In the fall of 1855 he completed and occupied the house which is still the family homestead. Lewis definitely lived in New York state. Wisconsin was just a place he bought land for investments - but NEVER lived in the state of Wisconsin. See Breers reference #17.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:58, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Right, but you don't cite that in the article. You're still pointing only to Butterfield 1880, p. 666, which doesn't mention his New York residency. Edge3 (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Drake built the first frame house on the property in the early part of 1844." - This one appeared to happen before Hiram Allen's property, which was the second frame house. Please consider reordering these sentences. Edge3 (talk) 04:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe it is correct the way I wrote it. Hiram Allen's (1 room) log cabin was built in 1843. Drake's "frame house" (built out of lumber,; not logs) was built in 1844 (many rooms). --Doug Coldwell (talk) 13:58, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm, I can't seem to find the info in the source anymore. I think I might have seen it yesterday, and am just missing it this morning. Could you please tell me where I can verify it was built "in the early part of 1844"? Also, if you look at Butterfield 1880, p. 666, it says "Jeremiah Drake... built the first frame house in the place... Hiram Allen built the second frame house." The chronology appears to be out of order. Edge3 (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Edge3: All further issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Well, let me see if I can get this straight. On page 228 of Jones (2016) it says, Wayne B. Dyer, afterward of Durand, Pepin County. Wisconsin, came to Wisconsin from the East in the month of August, 1843. When he passed over the present site of Columbus, the log cabin of Major Dickason on the Crawfish and that of Hiram Allen, not far from the mill, constituted the entire Village of Columbus.

Johnson page 665 says, Wayne B. Dyer, now of Durand, Pepin Co., was one of the earliest settlers in these parts. He came to Wisconsin in August, 1843, and when he passed over the present site of Columbus, the log cabin of Maj. Dickason, on the Crawfish, and that of Hiram Allen, not far from where the mill now is, constituted the entire village of Columbus.

To me this is TWO log cabins (only) in August 1843 for the entire Village of Columbus. Then it says on page 229, Jeremiah Drake, as the agent of Mr. Ludington, succeeded Dickason in the management of the property on the Crawfish, and built the first frame house in the place. Later it says, Jeremiah and W. Drake, who located just outside the village limits.
The earliest a home could have been built then is 1844. I interpret Hiram Allen built the second frame house as another house that Hiram Allen built to upgrade his living. The first house Hiram built was the log cabin in 1843 (of 2 buildings only then existing for the entire village).

On page 228 of Jones (2016) it says, Jeremiah Drake, as the agent of Mr. Ludington, succeeded Dickason in the management of the property on the Crawfish, and built the first frame house in the place. To me this means he replaced the log cabin with a frame house on the same property.

I'm getting confused. I think it will be best for you to stick to what the sources explicitly state, rather than try to interpret their meaning to reach a conclusion not directly supported. (See WP:SYNTHESIS for guidance.) Edge3 (talk) 04:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Working Let me continue this tomorrow, as now I have to go get my coronavirus vaccination and I have no idea if I can get back to this today. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 17:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, the new sourcing works. Thanks for copyediting and responding with extra information! Edge3 (talk) 17:18, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He sold 1,300 acres (530 ha) of it to Elbert Dickason in 1839 on a four year land contract." - Doesn't the source (Wisconsin State Journal) say 1,700 acres? But I also see that the NPS source states 1,300 acres. Edge3 (talk) 17:18, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Edge3: Yes, I saw that difference also, so choose The NPS number because I have found them to be pretty reliable over the years. I noticed also that the Wisconsin State Journal said the Lewis Ludington buyout was $600 and Butterfield (page 665) says $200 as does Jones (page 228) - so I think NPS is correct and they likely did some research on this to come up with the 1,300 acres like perhaps the recording of deeds, etc. Also I noticed Wisconsin State Journal misspelled Dickason's name as Dixon. If I had a preference I choose NPS.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:44, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      Ok, that's fine. An alternative is to show the info from both sources, with both sets of citations present. But either way is acceptable. Edge3 (talk) 18:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have added that Drake was in charge of both the sawmill and gristmill with a news clip reference. Are all the issues taken care of?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:33, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    For the ones I've already posted, yes. I should be able to post additional comments later today. Edge3 (talk) 19:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the 1868 Hi Res birds eye view LoC image I added you can see both James Street and Ludington Street when you enlarge it. I notice some street names that are the same in Columbus as in my town of Ludington, Michigan. Examples are, besides James and Ludington, Charles Street, Lewis Street, and Harrison Street (he was a cousin). Charles is a brother of James Ludington and Lewis is his father. James played a major role in founding Columbus and Ludington, MI.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:03, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The image when enlarged appears to show the sawmill / gristmill complex of buildings at the Crawfish River dam and Mills street (lower left).--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:14, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for the info! I'll look at the images next. I've just finished looking through the textual content:
  • "The school within Ludington's Plat was built in 1846.
  •  Done --Doug Coldwell (talk) 11:47, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • The source doesn't state that the school was built on Ludington's plat. Edge3 (talk) 15:18, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added another inline reference for that. The journal reference says, The original plat of the village along the Crawfish River had areas marked for a public square , a park , a schoolhouse , a church and a hotel all donated by Mr. Ludington. The sawmill was the main industry until 1854 when a grinding ... Will that work? --Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:50, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Columbia County was formed in 1847 from Brown County." - What is the citation? I couldn't find it in the source.

  •  Done - Economy, Population and Land Use Survey and Analysis journal (1967) , page 1. referenced now in article. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • You state that Columbia County was established in 1847, yet earlier in the same section, you state, "Ludington acquired a tract of land in Columbia County, Wisconsin Territory sometime in 1838." How is it possible for him to get a tract of land in a county that does not yet exist? Edge3 (talk) 15:18, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done @Edge3: Copy edited to reflect that he bought a tract of land in Wisconsin Territory. Will that work? --16:50, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • "By the next year they also built a Methodist church and a Universalist church." Butterfield, p. 669 states only that "it was thought the coming spring would lay the foundations of Methodist and Universalist houses of worship". However, that quote only mentions plans or speculation at the time, and it doesn't demonstrate that they actually built such churches.
  •  Done Copy edited to reflect building intended for spring 1855. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:59, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • Ludington appears to have died near Kenosha, not Keshena, WI.


  • The sources state that he died at the age of 72. However, if we do the math ourselves, his age at death was 71. Any thoughts on the discrepancy? Edge3 (talk) 20:16, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe the math of the sources is wrong. The Johnson source of birth 1761 I believe to be reliable. Find-A-Grave gives his age as 71. I'd say to stay with 71.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Perhaps it would be helpful to remove the sources that say 72, and replace with the source that says 71? Edge3 (talk) 23:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ludington acquired a tract of land in Columbus County, Wisconsin Territory..." - Is the correct name of the county "Columbia County"? Edge3 (talk) 20:25, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Corrected to Columbia County. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:41, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

I've completed my review, and will be ready to pass once the remaining items are resolved.

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
    Just the two remaining questions (above) about the "Founding of Columbus, Wisconsin" section, and the one suggestion (also above) about his age at death.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    Thanks for being so responsive to my feedback thus far! Edge3 (talk) 21:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Edge3: All further issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 15:02, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Edge3: All additional issues have been addressed. Can you take another look. Thanks. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 16:50, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Everything looks good to me. I'm passing the article now. Thanks for your contributions to this article! Edge3 (talk) 17:26, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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