Talk:Languages of Israel

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Materials[edit]

Relevant sources for this article:

—Ynhockey (Talk) 11:16, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The original article had many errors, and it confused facts from different times in history. The controversy over whether Hebrew or Yiddish should be the national language of Jews took place mainly in Poland. Most Jews in Palestine where Zionist, and therefore preferred the Hebrew language ideologically. "The battle of languages" did take place in Palestine when new high-education schools for Jews opened, but it was rather short, and the idea to teach in Hebrew was accepted. Drork 12:03, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While I doubt there were many factual errors, there probably were some. I verified some of the information, but as you probably realize, it's very difficult to verify everything and still have time to write a decent article - and I thought it was a great shame that no 'Languages of Israel' article existed at the time. By now however, many more experienced editors (with more time) have noticed this article and contributed to it. I think it's fairly factually correct now, but you are welcome to make any changes of course. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 18:14, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Language concerns[edit]

How far can I go speaking just English in Israel? (Well, I've been studying Hebrew but I don't think I can get by with it alone just yet.)

Most people in Israel have a basic understanding of English, and there's a fair amount who are fluent. If you're a tourist and visit frequent tourist locations, there will always be people who speak English fluently. However, if you visit poor neighbourhoods which no one wants to go to, you'll probably have quite a bit of trouble. I think the Arab sector is less fluent in English, but am speaking strictly from my own experience and can't be sure at all, since there are some major Israeli Arab cities I've never been to. -- Y Ynhockey (Talk) Y 20:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You won't have too much trouble getting around, since nearly all street signs are in English (as well as Hebrew and Arabic). It's been my experience that most Israelis speak enough English to get by, even in the lower income groups.

Yiddish "banned"?[edit]

What is "Yiddish was banned" actually supposed mean? I think that at the most, Yiddish did not receive active state support and recognition -- but there was no language police knocking on people's doors to make sure they didn't speak Yiddish. This should be rephrased to reflect the actual situation... AnonMoos 07:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

During the 50ies, the use of Yiddish in theatres, movies and other cultural activities was banned by law. There were some exceptions, for example, Yiddish performers from outside Israel were not banned, and sometimes mixed Yiddish-Hebrew performances were granted a special permit. I don't think anyone was arrested for breaking this law, but it was very hard to find venues for Yiddish performances, and local Yiddish performers often had to pay fines. There is an account about this in Haaretz, but it is entirely in Hebrew: [1] drork 13:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
it should be clarified in the article, I guess 91.89.243.218 (talk) 10:32, 11 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You know looking into it more just on a cursory glance it really does seem that Yiddish was pretty aggressively fought against. Seems like we should rewrite the Yiddish section as a whole to reflect that. El Juan Moreno (talk) 01:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

German[edit]

I heard that there is German-speaking people, too. Also Yiddish, but not only! SimonMAYER.

There are hundreds of languages spoken in Israel, but they are not common. In fact, I object to the addition of Italian, etc. to the article, because they are not common either. We need a reliable source listing the approximate amount of speakers for each language. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:39, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Ethnologue is a very good source for that, and there is a link to its Israel report in the beginning of the article.


Made some slight alterations. I thought the fact that the Arab-speaking school system (which accommodates about 15% of the population) teaches kids Hebrew as a mandatory class while the reverse is not true was overemphasized, to a point where it looked judgmental. --Telecart 21:58, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article Israel Nachrichten says there are about 100000 German-speaking people in Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.173.46.70 (talk) 22:10, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yiddish[edit]

Someone added a remark about Yiddish being spoken in Israel on informal occasions. This was true during the 50ies and to some extent in the 60ies. It is not true today except for certain groups of ultra-orthodox Jews (Hardeim). My grandparents used to speak Yiddish among themselves on informal occasions, though never with us, their grandchildren. My parents are more fluent in Hebrew than in Yiddish, and used to speak Yiddish almost only with their parents or other older relatives. I hardly speak Yiddish at all (I can handle a simple text due to some lessons my grandmother gave me). All this is true for Israeli Jews of Ashkenazi origin. There are many Israeli Jews who used to speak Arabic, Persian, Ladino and other languages alongside Hebrew. The new immigrants (Olim) who came to Israel in the last 20 years are either Russian-speakers or Amharic-speakers. Finding a Yiddish speaker among them is a rare occasion. drork 08:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Military[edit]

If an Arab Israeli chooses to join the military, is it just assumed that they will speak Hebrew? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.90.252 (talk) 03:08, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An Arab Israeli considering joining the military would already know Hebrew. —Technion (talk) 21:08, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If he graduated from a school that follows the official curriculum, he'd be quite fluent in Hebrew. There is a special curriculum for Arabic-speaking schools, and it includes many hours of learning Hebrew and English as a foreign languages. DrorK (talk) 23:14, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

History of languages in Israel[edit]

Is this article only for current use of languages in Israel, or can history of languages in Israel also be added?--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 22:35, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

History can be added, of course. (sorry for the late reply) -- Ynhockey (Talk) 22:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

English is NOT an official language in Israel.[edit]

This article is misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 17:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is debatable whether English is official in Israel or not. The Israeli language statute is a legacy of the British Mandate of Palestine code of law. The original statute includes English as one of the three official languages. Considering the amendments introduced by the Israeli legislator, there is no obligation to use the English language, but the right to use English in certain circumstances is still secured. DrorK (talk) 23:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If the right to use English in certain circumstances is still secured, how does that make English any different from Russian or Amharic? And even if, de facto, English is extensively used in a semi-official capacity (due to the fact that English is an international language), the explicit abolition of English as a required, legally-sanctioned language renders its de-jure official status null and void. Whatever status English had under British Mandate law was nullified clearly and explicitly by Israeli law. I think that much is quite clear, and there is no need to debate ad nauseam on whether English is official in Israel, and what exactly it means to be official. Israel has two official languages. Hebrew and Arabic. The right to use other languages in Israel is not prohibited, and indeed is protected, but these languages are not official state languages. Period.


The text reads "Today, English is the primary language for international relations and foreign exchange, but it is not sanctioned for use in Knesset debates or in drafting legislation."
Quite simply, Engish is not an official language in Israel.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 18:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

About Armenian language[edit]

Yiddish and Ladino[edit]

shalom, I recently heard on Israel radio that Yiddish and what they -the Israelis- call Ladino (actually Djudezmo) have been official languages of Israel for quite a while already, sorry, I have no other sources, --Hope&Act3! (talk) 14:50, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Italian and other languages[edit]

Shouldn't be mentioned - there are very few Israelis who actually speak Italian in the daily life. I live in Israel for 13 years (being living and travelling in different cities) and I don't remember hearing somebody speaking Italian in the street, except some tourists. Also there are many other languages spoken by some Israeli citizens, but not mentioned in the article: Hungarian (mostly old generation, there's no immigration from Hungary today), Portuguese (not as common as Spanish, but still can be heard in the streets), Bulgarian, Dutch, Tamazight (Berber Moroccan Jews, old generation), Malayalam (Jews from South India, old generation), Tigrinya (some Ethiopian Jews), neo-Aramaic (Jews from Northern Iraq and Iran (Kurdistan), old generation), Turkish, Greek, Belarusian (understood and somehow spoken by immigrants from Belarus, although most of them speak Russian), Serbian and others. 77.126.43.187 (talk) 09:41, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree in general, but the main problem here is sourcing—I started the article without sources at a time when this was OK, today it's a problem and it's difficult to make a case for keeping so much unverified information. If you have any sources regarding languages spoken in Israel, please add them. —Ynhockey (Talk) 16:48, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

2000 Supreme Court ruling[edit]

why does the article say that the 4112/99 supreme court ruling requires all "road signs, food labels and messages published and posted by the government" to be translated into Arabic? i found a summary of the ruling in English, and it only mentions road signs (seemingly this was what the petitioners had gone to court about), nothing else.

maybe this ruling paved the way for legislation about other stuff, but it seems to me the ruling itself did not mention anything but road signs at all. maybe someone can clarify or correct this.

Can you post a link to the summary that you refer to? —Ynhockey (Talk) 15:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

http://old-adalah.org/features/landlangrep/4112decision-eng.pdf It really doesn't mention anything but the municipal signs... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.223.222.112 (talk) 19:14, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

English as an official language[edit]

According to User:Dr. Feldinger, Hebrew Wikipedia is his source. WP:SELFPUBLISH says we can't use open wikis as sources.

Israel#Language says "Israel has two official languages, Hebrew and Arabic." It cites The World Factbook as its source.[2]

Please discuss. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:18, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The official languages of Israel is Hebrew and Arabic.[1][2] Ariel ✡ 04:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Pages/default.aspx
  2. ^ http://www.goisrael.com/tourism_eng/tourist%20information/discover%20israel/pages/languages.aspx
Correct. English is widely spoken but it is not official. This could be some confusion with the Mandate period, when English, Hebrew and Arabic were all official. Zerotalk 05:41, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to many Israeli government websites that state that the official languages are Hebrew and Arabic (Ariel gave some examples), the High Court of Israel has ruled exactly that. (Sorry, I can't find an English version.) In a nutshell, according to the court, Israel inherited English, Hebrew and Arabic as official languages by virtue of Article 82 of the Palestine Order in Council (1922) but English was removed by the Law and Administration Ordinance (1948). As to "semi-official", I don't think it has a legal meaning. If it is only meant that English is used quite often, that is already stated in the article. Zerotalk 07:30, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks guys. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:42, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This source argues that Arabic is not an official language. “WarKosign” 19:37, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Hebrew was an "Official" Language in the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth[edit]

According [3], Hebrew (and Aramaic) were "officially-recognized" languages in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (1569-1792).

In current times, you'd think of an "official language" as a language that appears on road signs, on government documents, and is used as a language of instruction in schools. This apparently was not the case back then. The "officially-recognized" languages were those used in contracts, business records, etc. Since the Jews used both Hebrew and Aramaic for contracts (the Ketuvah[4], or marriage contract, was then usually in Aramaic), those two language were "officially-recognized".Josh-Levin@ieee.org (talk) 14:28, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Official Language[edit]

Please add some cites for the following sentence in the lead:

Hebrew is the country's official language, and almost the entire population speaks it either as native speakers or proficiently as a second language

Note that it is completely different from the introductory sentence used to feature on the article:

The main languages used for communication among Israeli citizens are Modern Hebrew and Arabic, while English, second language of the majority of the Israeli population, is used widely in official logos, road signs and product labels.

ImTheIP (talk) 15:54, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This sentence is a summary of the Languages_of_Israel#Official_languages section, and should be sourced there. Debresser (talk) 17:00, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Is the source "The Israeli Conflict System: Analytic Approaches"? It is not a particularly precise cite and it is not hard to find a dozen scholarly sources claiming both Hebrew and Arabic are official languages. ImTheIP (talk) 21:03, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just that those sources would be mistaken, because the status of Arabic was changed per law recently. Debresser (talk) 16:21, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Then the lead should reflect a changing situation. As it is written, it glosses over all the nuances and is wholly unsatisfactory. The previous formulation was more lucid. ImTheIP (talk) 18:25, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Proficiency in English[edit]

I lived in Israel for 3 1/2 years, and based on my experience English is more embedded in Israeli culture than the article suggests.

The Academy of the Hebrew Language has coined many technical words from Hebrew roots, but the Israeli public has taken English roots and uses many unofficial words in place of those blessed by the Academy, e.g., while the Academy has coined a word, להר, for the programming term to compile[a] the working programmer uses לקמפל (l-kampel).

Among educated Israelis, I've heard fewer grammatical errors than among native Anglophiles, although it is common for Israelis to confuse infinitives with gerunds.

Also, enough Israelis speak English that when I wanted to practice my Hebrew and asked directions in Hebrew, they would answer in English. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 22:43, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Chatul: The article is based on reliable sources and not on personal impressions. Can you find sources supporting your impression? From your choice of example I presume that you are involved in the software industry, which is saturated by people with good working knowledge of English. As one goes out of the center and towards periphery, the level of English drops significantly. You can still encounter many people capable of carrying a meaningful conversation, but from my experience they are not as prevalent as you apparently feel. “WarKosign” 07:52, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the people I asked directions from were a random sample[b] of the population in Haifa, but I agree that the Technion staff and students were better educated than the population at large. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 19:43, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  1. ^ Athough Hebrew dictionaries list verbs by the male singular past tense, I am following English usage and giving the infinitive.
  2. ^ Unless the pedestrains in the Mercaz are not representative of Haifa at large.

German Proficiency[edit]

I have added an archive link to the summary of the 2011 report. Based on the summary (as seen in Google Translate), German proficiency was not part of the findings. I could not find the original survey report, just the summary.

Note that the original 2013 insertion[5] of text supported by this study (link to a different version of the same survey PDF) did not mention German.

I am not sure whether there is enough support in this Wikipedia article to support inclusion of German in the infobox but it seems credible based on Google search results so I'm leaving it alone. Oblivy (talk) 01:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed a long term persistence of vandalism that change the article to unsourced claims that "German is spoken natively by around 98% of Israelis." [6] (from today), "German is one of the primary language of Jews, about 94% of Israeli channels are in German." [7] and other such hateful nonsense (from November 14 and stretching back for months). Any content regarding the German language in this article needs to be scrutinized carefully for sourcing, and persistent addition of unsubstantiated, provocative trolling be addressed as such. signed, Willondon (talk) 01:44, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdish language in Israel[edit]

Why is the article not mentioning that Kurdish is also spoken in Israel? It's also on the German-language Wikipedia. The article in English only states that Neo-Aramaic is spoken by Kurdish Jews. ( Look Kurds in Israel and Kurdish Jews in Israel. Avestaboy (talk) 16:46, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter what German Wikipedia states. You need to have a reliable reference that states Kurdish is spoken in Israel. Semsûrî (talk) 14:27, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As an Israeli of Kurdish origin, I must say I´ve never heard Kurdish spoken here. The Jews of Kurdish origin here speak Neo-Aramaic (the older generation; the young generation speaks Hebrew). It might be confusing because some people call this Aramaic dialect "Kurdit" (Hebrew for "Kurdish") since it's spoken by people who came from Kurdistan area, but it's a dialect of Aramaic. BenG 19:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Semsûrî,@BenG1
Many Kurdish Jews are multilingual and speak Kurdish and Aramaic. Singer Ilana Elia,Itzik Kala
and other artists also speak and sing in Kurdish. Avestaboy (talk) 21:30, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I wrote about, uou need to have a reliable reference that states Kurdish is spoken in Israel. Semsûrî (talk) 21:34, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2024[edit]

Request to remove the paragraph for "Chinese, Filipino, and Thai"[edit]

Reasons:

  • I could not find any citations or official reports for the following paragraph.
  • The number "180,000" is also unreasonably high (much higher than other more visible minorities in Israel reported on this page.)
  • Besides, this article's Hebrew and Russian pages (likely other languages too) do not include the same statistics. "180,000" is a significant number, but seeing it only on the English page makes it suspicious.

Since nearly every sentence in this paragraph lacks reliable citations and the claim is inconsistent with other Wikipedia pages, I suggest removing the whole paragraph.

Chinese, Filipino, and Thai: While spoken by a negligible number of Israeli Jews, Chinese, Tagalog, and Thai have made inroads in Israeli society in recent years due to an influx of non-Jewish immigrants from China, the Philippines, and Thailand. It is estimated that there are 180,000 such illegal immigrants.[citation needed] Many (though mostly Vietnamese) legally entered the country when Israel opened their doors to "boat people" from war-torn Southeast Asia in the 1970s.[citation needed] Editius (talk) 15:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Partly done: I've left the very first sentence, because I assume it's the number specifically you're challenging, though will remove part of or all of the first sentence as well if you prefer. I have removed the rest of the paragraph. Anyone is welcome to restore with a source. Tollens (talk) 08:44, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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