Talk:La Raza

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Teeny89. Peer reviewers: Teeny89.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Too-literal translation?[edit]

I question the literal use of the translation of "La Raza" as "The Race". With context it's used as "The People" or "The Community" as exemplified below with "La Raza FC" or The Community/Peoples FC. Hence this translation would be a "False Friend" when translated without context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.195.144 (talk) 20:24, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's an interesting opinion and may even be correct, but we need reliable sources to provide such an analysis of the original versus contemporary meaning(s) and interpretations. There is no question whatsoever that the original meaning was 'race'; this is integral to both Vasconcelos's La raza cósmica and Paz's El laberinto de la soledad. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:07, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Race" is a slippery concept in any language. But its meanings have subtle differences from one to another. For many English-speakers it is a more definite term, so a literal translation of "the race" makes little sense (or even "the people"). "Our people" may be a better translation. Most Spanish speakers will still use Raza in a more definitive sense, such as "Raza blanca/negra, etc." What is perhaps even more confusing is that someone from Mexico may self-identify as "white" by race (de raza blanca), but also use "la Raza" to refer to Mexicans collectively ("hay mucha raza en Houston"). Then again, it is as confusing to people in other areas of the world to see Americans identify Chinese and Indian people as part of the same "Asian-American Race" or view all "Hispanics" as a "race." 70.125.198.158 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:35, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

origin[edit]

The article says the term originates in a 1925 article. But it goes back to the older term la raza hispana. Fiesta de la Raza (Columbus Day) was first celebrated in 1914, according to es:La Raza. As a concept it stems from the colonial casta system. --92.208.46.192 (talk) 05:19, 6 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It goes back a lot more than that: californios used it in print in Los Angeles in 1858. Mathglot (talk) 07:42, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Octavio Paz[edit]

We need to integrate some material about Octavio Paz and El laberinto de la soledad ('The Labyrinth of Solitude') which developed la Raza ideas further, beyond Vasconcelos. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:07, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Origins[edit]

Moving this unsourced content out of section History here, for discussion, or searching for references.

content removed from sect. History

The term was, in origin, short for la raza española ('the Spanish race'), introduced by Faustino Rodríguez-San Pedro y Díaz-Argüelles in 1913 with his proposal for a secular Fiesta de la raza española ('Spanish-race Festival') on October 12.

Beginning in the 1920s, the term raza española was criticized, and the alternative term Hispanidad ('Hispanicity') was proposed by Ramiro de Maeztu, based on a suggestion by Zacarías de Vizcarra. Alternatively Mexican writer José Vasconcelos proposed the term la raza cósmica ('the Cosmic Race'), in an essay by the same title, as describing the raza iberoamericana ('Ibero-American race') in 1925. He described this "Cosmic Race" as the end product of gradual racial mixing that was already underway in the former Spanish Empire. Vasconcelos thus replaced the designator española with cosmica in order to imply that racial miscegenation in the former Spanish Empire would lead to the emergence of a completely new "Ibero-American" race.

Even if this can be substantiated, I don't see that there is necessarily a connection to "La Raza" in its current incarnation, so it's not clear to me that a sourced version belongs in the article, unless that can be established. Mathglot (talk) 08:04, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]