Talk:La Llorona

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old discussion

This section describing the legend of La Llorona is written very poorly and cites no references. Can we fix this? 76.124.133.175 (talk) 17:35, 13 August 2008 (UTC)Tabitha

Searches for "Woman in White" and "Weeping Woman" should redirect to this article. JDspeeder1 20:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually we need an disambiguation page. There is also a novel by Wilkie Collins called The Woman in White. I will try to set one up.

Why does La Sucia redirect to this article? I may be missing something, but it appears that Sihuanaba in Honduras is referred to as "La Sucia"; I can't seem to find a connection between "La Sucia" being used to refer to La Llorona. Nonnulla (talk) 22:01, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Could this article be coordinated with White Lady (ghost)? Very similar topic, no links between the articles. Some of this ought to be (but isn't) treated in that article. Pishogue (talk) 04:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

IPA

Perhaps it would be better to discuss the IPA versus English sight-spelling about the pronunciation of La Llorona, rather than reverting over and over again.

My preference here, at least, is for the IPA version. The IPA here is not particularly hard to read; the sounds that it describes are not particularly exotic, and are not represented by unfamiliar characters. The chief thing that must be known to read the IPA version is that the written character [j] represents an English "y" sound; and this is not a particularly rre or obascure value to give that character. In cases where an IPA transcription uses particularly obscure symbols, or an accurate IPA transcription in the source language would not correspond to the customary pronunciation adopted in English, the IPA may in fact not be the best choice. This is not the situation here. — Smerdis of Tlön 05:54, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

It's always die to have the pronounciation listed in a way that normal readers can understand without being an expert on IPA's version of things. If the people thinking the current pronounciation isn't quite accurate, then list the real version in a way that's easier to understand instead of falling back on yet another "standard" that a group of people stuck on themselves and their own way of doing things came up with to make things more difficult for normal readers to follow.

It's the same thing as with some dedicated group of people here voting as a group whenever anything comes up to decide for no particular reason that all animal names had to be capitalized because that's what some professional bird watchers do, or that all articles titles for Norse myths have to be in 14th century Icelandic instead of modern Egnlish versions because that's what they prefer. We need to do things so that Wikipedia READERS got value out of them, not out of egotistical crusades to try to enforce little niche standards everywhere. If someone wants to start IPA.wikipedia.org, by all means go for it, but it's not something a squad of impractical people can just show up to enforce on articles everywhere. DreamGuy 19:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

WP:MOS-P says pronunciations are to be given in IPA, and ad hoc pronunciation guides are discouraged. --Angr (t·c) 20:09, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Lloronas across the Americas

I know there's not a lot version of la Llorona in the Dominican Republic, but i've not heard it since my youth. Maybe a few other Llorona folkloric stories would do this article well.

Here in Venezuela we have a version more commonly called "La Sayona" (for the long flowing clothes she carries, a "saya", not sure how it's called in english, but also goes by the name of La Llorona). The most common version is that she was a woman that found her husband cheating on her with her mother, so she killed them both and burned the house down. With his last breath the husband cursed her to be without god or rest forever, so she keeps roaming as a ghost the venezuelan plains, appearing (and according to legend, killing if she can grab them) mainly to men that are cheating on their wives. Some versions include his baby in the house as she burned it down, others say she took her baby with her, and another variant of that last one says that she appears as a woman carrying a baby and asking people for help carrying it, if they accept the spirit goes free and the person dies becoming the new sayona. According to some versions of the legend, carrying some rolled tobacco in the pocket prevents her from appearing.

Some sources (in spanish): http://www.mipunto.com/punto_astral/temas/3er_trimestre02/sayona.html and http://www.llanera.com/llanos/?llanos=1&lyd=1&id=2&leyenver=1&leyenda=1

La Llorona is Widespread in the Americas

I know that the legend of La Llorona is widespread in most Spanish-speaking countries. This may suggest that the legend has origins in Spain itself. I have even come across sources suggesting that it was introduced into Spain during the Moorish period. This should be investigated. But this is wrong because It originated with the people in tolupan in Honduras

La Llorona from a different view (Conversational Q+A)

Well I have read up on what things have been up on this current listing. Truth be told I am rather questionable that these stories ever had any truth at all. Cursed with a head of a horse, Drink my teat cause I am your mother, being damned to die by hearing her cries? This is utter nonsense that just put in interest of making a story as innocent as this turn into a ghastly Halloween animated series waiting to happen... I have an Opinion on what the logical thing would have been that could have happened.

La Llorona may not just be any kind of widow, but perhaps she was a caring one and her children were being Ill given to care or financial help. Their father, who is her husband, went out one day to try and find some help. unsure of what else could happen, he may have just been taken of his life or some other reason why they never heard from him again. Without his help and assistance in financial care and medical health, the days that go past just count to the children passing away from the natural cause that could be thought of as one more reasonable explanation.

I would also say that she possibly lived by the Rio Grande river a long time ago and had her dead children buried there, not drowned like innocent victims of a womans emotional mood swings. I also would believe she may have caught the same disease as they did and passed away silently by the river. And onward to this day, when you're alone or with others by the river, and if you hear her crying, you know that it would be her weeping over the loss of her children from so many years ago. Or perhaps it would be of a female family member from her family tree long ago in a new generation mourning for their ancestors loss and her twisted story putting their family to shame...

That last bit about an extended family was just sort of a questionable slot filler case people want questions explaining the eerie cries from the river. Perhaps the sound of it makes it sound like it's a female crying would be all. Or perhaps all those stories and a persons built up fear would naturally mess with the imagination of ones mental cerebrum and create visual illusions AND/OR ghostly imagined sounds that would considerably be known as a female weeping along the side of a river. Oh, and if you're not thinking this could possibly be a more logical and kinder side to the story that could be true, then think about if a girl with a horses face is true enough to believe...yea right... - Mialover730 10:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

That's the problem with a story told to children that is now here on Wikipedia. Urban legend is now adding to it. Of course, there are likely different versions and some may be based on local fact or supposed events. If you have a section you seriously question, add some citations requested. If the the citations are not supplied in a reasonable period, say two weeks, we can be begin trimming the article. Ronbo76 14:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Sadly I do not know how to make citations on which I can reference what I am talking about. I do not mind about what is or isn't put up or what is or isn't trimmed. I am here to just place my suggestive theory on a more brighter side to the story of La Llorona. Do you or do you not think that you may be able to edit what I have put up and perhaps make it a suggestive idea of a brighter side to the story that has been told in such an unrealistic urban legend form? - Mialover730 23:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Mialover730 , your suggestions constitute original research and therefore do not belong in the article. However, I encourage you to continue thinking about la llorona and consider writing an article about her and your interpretation of her story for an appropriate outlet. If you did, we could then cite it here :-) The thing I would hope comes across in the article is that la Llorona is not a unique story told to children in latino communities. Rather, she is an archetype found across cultures and especially in culutures where women have limited power. Some feminist scholars have embraced her as a heroine, but I feel she is a much sadder figure. Her backstory changes a little here and there but she is usually a mother who murders her own children out of desperation - a lot like Susan Smith. She has morped into a harbinger of death due to the horrible nature of her crimes. She has counterparts in most western cultures and in many non-western cultures. As for your comment that she is an unrealistic urban legend - most urban legends are unrealistic and that is one way to actually see through them. The point is, the story of la llorona serves a cultural purpose in the communities where her tale is told. She serves to remind young girls of the dangers of clinging to an uncommitted man, she is a reminder of racial and class distiniction in her incarnation as La Malinche, and she serves as a warning of the dangers of being out alone when she is presented as a vengeaful ghost. As long as La llorona is culturally significant, she will live on.Lisapollison 03:51, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, I have no guts to put this up on the archive itself really. Anyone else who knows how to is more than willing to do so if they can. Though I do hope that they don't edit it when they do. Mialover730 11:45, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Albuquerque Public Schools

I was raised in Albuquerque, and attended several APS elementary schools. I remember being taught the tale of La Llorona. (We were also taught the Coyote stories.) The Ditch Witch was a mnemonic to remind us that playing in ditches and arroyos could be deadly, especially in the case of flash flooding. I always linked the two in my mind, because I vaguely remember someone telling me they were the same. A google search for "La Llorona" "ditch witch" reveals that I'm not imagining it. The legend matches the safety mascot by the act of crying for children lost in swift-flowing waters. How can we integrate that into the article? --205.201.141.146 16:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

That's quite intriguing. I will look into it and see how we can fit this into the article. it';s an interesting application of the folk story.LiPollis 19:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Guatemala's legend

I added the paragraph about the legend in Guatemala to "The story" part of the article. If references are required, please let me know. Infrasonik 05:59, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Broken link

The reference link is broken. When you click on it, it says the page cannot be found. --Angelusgutmann 16:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC) 16:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Mexico should come first.

Putting the Texas description first makes it seem that this legend is first of all Texan and then Mexican. This is no way the truth. Although many countries have their own version of La Llorona, it is first and foremost a Mexican legend and then has traveled to other parts of the americas.

--but Texas was part of Mexico... ;) Beetlecat (talk) 17:12, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Images

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this Article in desperate need of referencing of asserted facts

In the massive rewrites of this article, it appears a fair number of citations have been deleted. The article is now a bloated concatenation of anecdotes without cited sources. This is unfortunate. I would encourage other editors to try and find at leat one source for every anecdote they have considered important enough to include. if it's that valuable and that crucial to the explantion of La Llorona, surely there must be a credible source for the story, yes? That said, I believe this article could stand a little trimming. Also, please resist the urge to add everything and the kitchen sink to the See Also Section. if the article is mentioned in the main body of the text, we do not add it to the See Also. Further, just because something relates to an urbvan legend doesn't mean all urban legends should be tacked unto the See Also section. The Cry baby bridges are directly rerlated to the story of La Llorona in that they share the common theme of infanticide. However, including links to general lists of haunted places is just silly. Please use common sense when adding to the article and to the See Also section. Thanks. LiPollis (talk) 06:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Copy-and-pasted Text?

The text under the "Story" section is identical to the text on this website: http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/ghosts/MarshalTexas.php Hard to know which one came from which, but the article certainly feels more fitting on the linked to website than Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.190.35 (talk) 01:00, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Etymology?

Need more info —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.206.255 (talk) 18:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This is an urban legend

Is aparte from been a folk tale its an urban legend,because even today some people claim to have heard the crying of la Llorona —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.235.109.55 (talk) 20:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Bold text

File:Headline text

is the weaping woman true that is what some people want to now and we want some one to find out == —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.208.187 (talk) 01:37, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

La Llorana can be considered a variant of the Jason and Medea narrative where the a spurned woman loses her children in order to reclaim her mate and she fails. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.112.9 (talk) 21:32, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Function in society section

I'm pretty sure La Llorona isn't so much about demonizing female sexuality and oppressing Hispanic women as it is about a creepy child-stealing ghost. Maybe those theories should be in an "alternate interpretations" section or something of the like.

other patatos wouldent want to marrie her and have kids becaus they would think they children looked like p-atatoes

At the beginning of the Spanish conquest, many Indian women were raped by the Spaniards. Many of these women chose to kill their sons, as they would be rejected by both the Spaniards and the native Americans. To avoid this from happening, the Spanish priests created the myth of 'La Llorona' to instill fear in the native women, so that they wouldn't kill their sons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.19.194 (talk) 01:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Rubbish. Wiki works off of RS's, not some crazed OR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.15.31 (talk) 20:59, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Added link

Added an external link to a radio program with a perspective on the myth that is not addressed in the rest of the article. Arquebus1 (talk) 21:32, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

la lorona

Their was this lady,she lived next to a river crossing the brige.The lady was outside with her two kids.Her two kids where playing next to the river,but not too close.The litle girl was playing with her liitle doll and the boy was just playing with some thing. When the lady[la lorona] saw a man walking by and she had fall in love and she had "love first sight" she wander[what if...what if he dosent like my kid or any kid]she ask her self. Not nowing what he like so she shuved her own two kids ito the river they not nowing how to swim the drown into the river and not to be seen.Then the lady talk to the man and ask him if he like children and he saed he did like children.then she cryed with sadness and regret of her same and died with sadness for she is now called la lorona.They say that she wont go to the after life until she finds her children.poeple say if you are in the the restroom and tun off the lights and splash or flush three times she wil apear and dont no what she will do so if I were you I wouldn't do anything for your good sake.

  ҖатћЎ Ӧ  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.49.147 (talk) 03:32, 25 October 2012 (UTC) 

la llorona

I hear this story everywhere and it is always different. In our village in Mexico, St. Agustin, it was a cautionary tale about infanticide. Of course the people swear she is real. http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Ghost-Witches-Spirits-Augustine-ebook/dp/B00G1ST34O/ref=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1382387743&sr=1-4&keywords=Alice+Gordon 76.122.64.75 (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Texas variation

In the Texas variation, La Llorona doesn't kill herself, but rather goes insane trying to find her kids and is (sometimes) found dead (the cause is not specified). I'm from the Nueces River area, so that might be a specific variant local to the river, but one of my sources is an anthology called "Texas Ghost Stories."

Maybe there should be a section called "Variants" but there isn't really a base story. The only thing they really have in common is "Girl meets guy. Girl has kids (at some point before end; it depends on the telling). Guy does something to girl (promises to marry her, and then reneges for some reason, such as his parents get mad, or he's been faking love the whole time -- it varies wildly). Girl gets mad and throws kids in river. Girl turns into ghost somehow. Girl steals children forever more." It's a tricky topic, I must admit, and hard to write a Wikipedia article for. Let's see what happens, I guess. --XndrK (talk · contribs · count) 18:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Main image inaccurate

The image in this article clearly does not fit the description. It should be removed altogether or replaced with an image that actually matches the caption. 128.84.127.8 (talk) 16:42, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

It's also a song which ppl sing

Try Roberto Alagna on his 2011 album Pasion — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.26.8 (talk) 20:20, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Missing Citations

This article is missing many citations for its information, and much of the articles information remains unsourced. This needs to be fixed and the unsourced material given proper citations in order to comply with Wikipiedia's guidelines and standards of a properly sourced article.--Paleface Jack (talk) 14:56, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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All of Latin America

The lede says it is part of Latin American folklore. Is it actually all across the continent? For instance in Chile and Brazil? Or just in Central America? The article should make this clear and I cannot find any sources on it. Ashmoo (talk) 13:11, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

eli says cap — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.255.8.98 (talk) 18:04, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Shawn Mendes

How is he analogous to La Llorona? Is there some kind of superstition surrounding his music or something? It's not noted on his page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.94.170.50 (talk) 16:06, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Lead needs to be edited

The lead does a good job at stating what the article topic is. The lead does not include a brief description of the major sections it is basically a shortened summary of the legend. The lead states that she drowned herself and was denied entry into heaven but the legend section states that her husband came home and said if she wanted to be with him then she needed to find their children. The lead is neither concise or detailed because it contains information that doesn't match the sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mck5471 (talk • contribs) 03:39, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Added Bibliography

Here there are some new sources in order to add more reliable and diverse information to the article, all from differnt sources and some are from journal databases. History Today; Wailing Woman American History; Muneca de La Llorona Texas State Historical Association "La Llorona" and Related Themes Los pasos de La Llorona sobre Ciudad Juárez: voces de resistencia en la literatura de mujeres de la frontera México-Estados Unidos Mck5471 (talk) 02:56, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

La Llorona

I don't see much wrong, but I agree with the detail issue. I will say I had to correct a few grammar and I'm not feeling this article that much. Please fix things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RihaScott123 (talk • contribs) 17:30, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The information is incorrect...

The legend tells of a single mother who left her children unattended on her boat to extinguish the fire in their house. Apparently, the boat drifted away with the children during the time she was desperatelly attempting to extinguish the blaze. It is unknown if the children were asleep, but it was late night so that was very likely. Therefore unintentionally contributing to their downing. The kids bodies where found days later by the river bank. The woman suffered not only the accidental death of her children but also the guilt that came over her, so she lost her mind and began calling out for her children, often wandering during the night. No one knows how she died but after her death, people could still hear her cries in the night searching for her children. Her ghost was thought to carry children away during the night. 2600:4040:750D:DA00:31DE:8BB5:A6BB:35DA (talk) 08:04, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

There are different versions of the story and some movies made. Which one is the story you wrote above? Thinker78 (talk) 20:57, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English 1101 033

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