Talk:Kouros

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Opinionated para[edit]

I removed this to here:

Most kouroi were commissioned by aristocrats as offerings to temples, or by the families of aristocrats to place over their graves. Marble sculpture was very expensive and only the wealthiest could afford to pay sculptors to create these works. Kouroi are therefore, a representation of the wealth and power of the Greek aristocratic class, and as this class lost its power in the sixth century, so the kouros went out of fashion both politically and artistically.

What struck me about it is its failure to conform to the mainstream analysis of the sculpture. Sculpted figures did not disappear from Greek art. They evolved from archaic ones into naturalistic ones. Otherwise they continued to find the same uses and the same market. The second thing that struck me was the juvenile economic analysis, which proposes that the disappearance of the archaic kouroi was linked to some sort of disappearance of the aristocracy. Well for one thing with the growth of democracy the expense of most monumental sculpture was assumed by the state, so it did not have to disappear. For another, there was no disappearance of any aristocracy. It continued to play a leading role in the democracy. And why the 6th, why not the 5th? So, it appears to me the analysis is not a professional one and moreover does not summarize commonly held or well-known views. I think it crosses over the line into into an original essay - these are not views held in the field but are personal views nor are they a summary of anything. Sorry.Dave (talk) 07:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think "failure to conform to the mainstream analysis of the sculpture" is not a valid criticism. (And in fact, the first two sentences are probably correct [cf. J. J. Pollitt What is this mainstream to which you refer? You are correct in saying the paragraph in question is not "professional," but that's the whole idea of Wikipedia. This writer failed to cite sources, as do you. Hurling assertions accomplishes nothing. How to locate ancient works of art within the broader arena of ancient culture is an ongoing scholarly debate. I applaud the first writer for attempting to add some of this debate to Wikipedia, though I chide her/him, and you, sir, for failing to cite her/his/your sources so they can be fully vetted by the community. Zooma (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC).[reply]

Draped kouroi[edit]

"Kouroi are always naked". Actually, there is a group of 35 draped kouroi, mainly from Didymos, Miletos and Samos. See for instance the votive statue of Dionysermos or that one. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 18:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for not discussing this earlier, but I wanted to read Ridgway 1993 before writing any more on this subject. Certainly that whole section needs a rewrite, and I intend to do so, but the point you raise poses an interesting problem of definitions: if kouroi are not defined by their nakedness then are all male standing figures kouroi? There seem to be two camps here, Richter treats related figures (offering bearers, draped figures, warriors and bearded figures) as non-canonical kouroi, and Ridgway excludes them in line with her thesis that kouroi represent Apollo. Ridgway would regard nakedness as an attribute in itself. My inclination is to follow Ridgway, since I don't believe we know enough about the placing or purpose of kouroi to say that other kouroi-like male figures functioned in the same way. But as always I welcome correction. Twospoonfuls (ειπέ) 13:50, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know much about this subject, but I can send you “The Draped Kouros Type and the Workshop of the Syracuse Youth” by B.A. Barletta (AJA 91, No. 2, April 1987). FWIW, Ridgway herself uses the expression “draped kouroi” in her article “The State of Research on Ancient Art” (The Art Bulletin, Vol. 68, No. 1, March 1986). Jastrow (Λέγετε) 19:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ecorché[edit]

It be very useful if this article could illustrate an écorché with the major muscle groups and bones clearly labelled. I can't find one on commons, perhaps someone can help? Twospoonfuls (ειπέ)

Écorchés may be unfamiliar as meaning skinned. It takes search in an online French-English dictionary to discover that and get past Écorches as the name of a french community, as found generally and in Wikipedia. Maybe someone could fix. - 173.16.85.205 (talk) 16:43, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:Muscle posterior labeled.png Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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The Egyptian inspiration of the Kouros seem to have been debunked[edit]

Many scholars consent to acknowledge that the early archaic sculpture took their influence from minoan art. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gelias01 (talk • contribs) 11:28, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Which scholars? Tyrone Madera (talk) 20:38, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]