Talk:Kolach (cake)

Confusion

As a Czech, I remind you that the word "koláč" simply means "cake" in Czech and I assume also other Slavic languages. "Koláčky" or "kolaczky" or whatever would be small cakes. The page seems to specifically refer to Czech styled cakes which I know are popular in United States especially in areas of Czech settlement (Texas and Chicago) and unless cakes from other countries resemble them it is meaningless and confusing to put that terminology here or merge into the same article.

But... the problem is that there are numerous, sundry, and geographically dispersed folks who use the term "kolache" for a little piggie in a blankie, i.e. a wiener sandwich. I try to hide my great displeasure when I hear their error long enough to explain that the term is used for a (much yummier) Czech pastry, but to no avail. Most of them are older than me and they are confirmed kolache wiener-eaters. It is futile. So this article is going to play hide the wiener for decades to come. Czech please. I like to saw logs! (talk) 07:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

As a real Czech, I would correct little bit the above statement that "koláč" means "cake" – it doesn't at all, "cake" (in meaning of e.g. a birthday cake) is "dort" in Czech and "koláč" is simply "pie" in English. And it always has a sweet filling (marmelade, jam, sweet cottage cheese, or fruits etc.) if a different one is not explicitly mentioned.109.81.212.229 (talk) 01:35, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

sorry...did not delete this on purpose

- I'm of Polish heritage through my maternal grandmother, and the home-made kolaczky that she, my mother, and my aunts make is a lot smaller than the one described on the page, less like a bread roll and more cookie-like in size and density, with only two opposing corners folded in, producing a kind of hexagonal diamond shape with the filling coming out the open sides. This morning at breakfast in one of the dining halls at Ohio University, one of the items in the buffet was an odd-looking, large, flaky pastry that turned out to have a sausage patty in the middle, and the flavor of its dough, although much flakier, reminded me strongly of that of the kolaczkies I've described; after a little research which returned no hits of the word "kolaczky" on WP, I came upon this page; I was apparently served a Texas-style "kolache". Is anyone else familiar with the variant that I know? Gus 14:27, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The Kolačky exists in various variations throughout eastern Europe from at least Slovenia to Poland. I grew up with Slovene-style at home and Czech-style from the bakery. There is a great deal of cross-over in various styles of Kolačky. Donald Hosek 02:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Seems Biased

Wow, so much passion over the word... I have lived in Houston almost all my life and have only ever heard "kolache" used to refer to a sausage roll. Maybe everywhere else in the world it is used to mean a fruit pastry. However, this article specifically references Shipley Donuts, and I can definitively say that if you walk into Shipley's and ask for a kolache, you're going to get something with meat in it. Also, there are some local chains that specialize in kolaches and they are mostly meat-filled. So maybe the article should specifically mention the Houston usage in the same paragraph where it talks about the Houston store. As it currently stands, it gives the false impression that Shipley's sells fruit pastries. 98.197.143.35 (talk) 22:13, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

"Kolache" in Texas categorically refers to the sausage version. In fact, a Kolache with sweet filling sounds downright disgusting. It wrong to say that "Kolache" is a misnomer when the entire state/south uses this word to refer consistently to the sausage version.

No it doesn't. I was born and raised here. Lone Star Kolaches (how much more Texan can you get?) sells kolaches with fruit filling. So does the Little Czech Bakery in West, Texas. You don't know what you're talking about. 209.163.243.99 (talk) 07:34, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

.............you must be a yankee that moved to Texas because you dont know what you are talking about. My family is full-blooded Czech and we use kolache for sweets, sausage rolls are pigs in a blanket. Go back to minnesota

Hear, hear! 209.163.243.99 (talk) 07:34, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Not biased at all.

1. Wikipedia is a world-wide guide. The perspective of Texas is not the definitive one, *especially* when discussing an eastern european dessert. People from other places just might have something to say about it. Say, maybe, the Czech Republic, or Oklahoma, Nebraska, or any other midwestern states with historically large numbers of Czech immigrants.

2. You are completely wrong that "Kolache" categorically refers to the sausage "version" in Texas. Weikel's Bakery in La Grange, Texas and the Czech Stop in West, Texas, both bakeries in historically Czech immigrant communities - make the distinction between fruit and cheese filled Kolaches and klobasneks. Festivals with baking competition in Caldwell, Texas, and in West, Texas, contain multiple fruit categories. Perhaps most damning, Texas Monthly, a well-known reporter of Texas culture and news, lists three recipes in an article located at http://www.texasmonthly.com/food/kolache/kolache.6.php No meat recipes are listed - only fruit, poppyseed, cottage cheese and cabbage.

3. I am of Czech descent from Ennis Texas. The sausage roll commonly call a kolache in Texas is a bastardization of the real thing. My grandmother would have called it a 'Pig in a Blanket' and not a Kolach. True kolache are always sweet breads with either fruit, cottage cheese, or poppy seeds for a filling. Also I would like to make a note on spelling. In Czech, kolach is singular and kolache is plural. Kolaches is not a word and would be the equivalent of saying breadses. One final note, in Czech the word for sausage is klobasa. Therefore a sausage roll would be klobasnek. (Sorry this is a pet peeve of mine.) Babba Lou 14:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

4. @ the original post above......Don't know what part of Texas you are from, but my family is full-blooded slovak, and I've lived in Texas my whole life, and we EXCLUSIVELY use the word Kolache for the sweets version only. We simply say sausage roll for sausage rolls. I hear Texans call tomato sauce and meat Goulash too, but in the slavic tradition, Goulash is meat and potatoes or meat and rice with gravy. I dont know though, different strokes....but, my grandmother was from Czech and she lived in Westphalia, TX her whole life and thats the way she used these terms. I know alot of Yankees that move here and use the terminology wrong and act like they are Texan... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.244.164.160 (talk) 15:43, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

5. Can someone add a mention of Wilson, KS - the Czech capitol of Kansas?!

6. No self respecting Czech would call a pig in a blanket a Kolache. I'm full blooded Moravian and native Texan and a kolache is a sweet pastry. Period. Who's the dumb Yankee that called us purists? I'm insulted. That's like slapping Italians in the face for wishing spaghettiO's not to be part of their lexicon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.222.145 (talk) 22:56, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Kolache cookies

I grew up outside of Chicago and our family has made these cookies since the 1960's. They were, as described in another comment, shaped like diamonds and filled with Solo brand (very important) pie filling in either apricot or sometimes raspberry filling. The cookie part is butter, cream cheese and flour. We still make them today but have to find people to send us the Solo pie filling since we moved all over the country. Oh, and we promounce them KO - lach - ski. I wonder what the correct pronounciation is or if I am correct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.27.40.43 (talk) 20:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

I also grew up in the Chicago area and we, too, made apricot or raspberry preserves-filled cookies with the dough folded over the filling and sprinkled with powdered sugar. I have heard the name pronounced ko-LOTCH-keys, but undoubtedly we Americans are all messing it up. We don't use pie filling, but rather, just jars of preserves. I have also made this cookie with the more traditional poppy seed fillings, and although they are not as sweet, they are better than they sound. -69.47.186.70 (talk) 22:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggested merge

Please discuss at talk:Kalach (food)#Suggested merge. —Michael Z. 2007-08-03 22:21 Z

Another merger question

I'm the primary editor for the Nut roll article, and it seems like the Kolache is similar. Can we merge or are they distinct? Any help is appreciated. Thanks! :) Zidel333 (talk) 06:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Not the same. -69.47.186.70 (talk) 22:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

how about you eat a kolache before you think they are so similiar. the person that wrote the article on pies could have said the same thing you did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.180.119.132 (talk) 13:59, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Cultural reference

In Czech 2000 film Samotáři (meaning "Loners"), a sentence "Máme výborné koláčky" (meaning: "We have an excellent kolache") was used to offer kolache baked with Cannabis. Since then, in Czech republic (mainly among young people) is the word "Koláčky" sometimes used for pastry with cannabis.

89.233.167.161 (talk) 12:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Guidelines and Diversity

First of all "The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page (accessible via the discussion tab) is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject." - Straight from the guide on talk pages. Second I would like to expand the diversity of this page to explore the permutations of "Kolache" a little more. I think that, for one, there is a much greater kolache involvement in Texas culture than is revealed here. If I had to list the cities that claim notable kolache's it may never end. Second, I'm sure there are enumerable ways to make "kolache", even in it's birth place, so let's find that information and post it here rather than arguing over who is a "yankee" or not. I'm originally from Texas and kolache's were a very endearing part of my childhood, but again this is not a forum for Texas culture wars or even Czech traditions. The very word "kolache" is a permutation of it's original intent. (see the very first entry on the page). Last, but not least, let's have fun providing the world with useful information that is verifiable and substantiated about this subject that is so near and dear to all our hearts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dekecds (talk • contribs) 07:14, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

..............The term "Kolache" never was associated with what has always been known as a "Pig in the Blanket" or klobasnek until the chain bakeries (Krispy Kreme, Shipley's, Duncan Donuts, etc) began serving them. They erroneously called them "kolache" and since the vast majority of folks never had a real kolache before, it became the accepted name for Pigs in the Blanket. I grew up in La Grange, TX and in 40 years never heard a "pig" referred to as a kolache, and still don't when I visit my folks. Just because a bakery calls it a kolache, doesn't really make it so. I think many small bakeries are catering to the ignorant masses (the bakeries could be ignorant of this themselves) and going with the flow.66.170.206.194 (talk) 20:51, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Ha. I would have to concur with 66.170.206.194. I don't know where the confusion came from, but I have some relatives who serve pigs in a blanket and call them, erroneously, kolaches. When I have explained what a kolache is and where I buy the authentic ones (Czech bakeries), they don't seem interested in correcting their language. Perhaps it is the same for hundreds of types of cuisine that it often gets lost in the translation, but this error is quite stark when the authentic kolaches are widely available. I like to saw logs! (talk) 04:14, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Being a chef who specializes in Slavic bread-types as part of his pastry offerings. This is by far one of the most disputed terms in slavic pastries. A kolači can mean anything to a small cookie to different types of cakes, candies, and then also to that sweet southern Moravian pastry most commonly found in Texas and other Czech pockets in the United States that is filled with fruit, or cream cheese. There is a different nomenclature for a filled poppyseed roll as it is improper to cook a Kolači with poppyseed because the filling may boil out as they're being cooked. Other non-fruit filling usually follow a simple "name of item" plus "nik/i" added to them which in the case of Makovnik/i or Klobasnik/i you get the literal terms of Poppy Roll/s and Sausage roll/s. Even most Polish bakeries along the East Coast and Chicago refer to Klobasniki. I have been considering re-writing this page for quite some time. I know it can be very emotional because "nobody f***s with my Kolači." =) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.189.246.221 (talk) 16:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I also concur. My mother owns Zamykal Gourmet Kolaches in Calvert Texas,has won Caldwell Kolache fest, West Fest and others and featured on Texas country Reporter. Not to mention she outsells every other vendor at any festival she attends. She bakes grandma Zamykal's original Chech recipe that is over 100 years old. The misnomer of a "Kolache" being a sausage treat is flat out erroneous and the entire country has bought it. As the previous author stated the big donut chains propagate erroneously this misconception...I even stopped for gas at a Valero station and there was a window sized picture of a Klobasnek titled "Kolache"!! I nearly wrote a letter. At the festivals, individuals regularly come up asking for "Meat or Sausage Kolaches"...we try to educate them but they just look offended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.140.238.98 (talk) 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

This page Intimidates or Infuriates Houstonians

Summary of the Conflict:

1. Anybody from the general Houston, Texas vicinity, and doubtless many other locations will be surprised, offended, hostile, or confused if a fruit-filled or cream-cheese-filled pastry is called a "kolache." Such people expect that a "kolache" strictly means a sausage or meat-filled bread.
2. The Czech bakeries in many regions of Texas and outside of Texas call their style of sweetbread pastry with fruit or cream cheese inside a "kolache." The term kolache is used extensively outside of Texas in this exact sense.
3. The usual term for the sausage or meat-filled bread is "Pig in the Blanket" or klobasnek outside of national chain restaurants and the people who frequent the previously mentioned areas.
4. This culinary quagmire is akin to the dispute over Burma or Myanmar; the Falkand Islands or the Islas Malvinas; the Sea of Japan or East Sea; etc.
5. The result of this is that the Houstonian nomenclature is a minority view. A minority view is often as important as a majority view, especially when conflict arises.
6. IT WOULD BEHOOVE EVERYONE to be mindful of the dispute and the fact that Wikipedia is not here to resolve the naming dispute. This talk page is here to help resolve disputes in the content of the article's page. These two types of disputes are entirely separate. The best resolution for the article is to discuss both sides of the dispute and present them favorable to both sides of the naming dispute.
7. By standing in the middle and stating the facts, our readers should understand the regional and cultural differences in the type of food referred to as a kolache.

The origin of "Kalashnikov" last name

Just an interesting fact. Kalashnikov is the last name originating from Russia and meaning someone descending from a person making or peddling kolachs (kalachs). "Kalash" is just some dialect version of pronouncing "Kalach". Obviously the ancestors of Mikhail Kalashnikov were dealing with kalach bakery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.241.132.23 (talk) 18:43, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

This is already mentioned in the respective article dealing with the East Slavic kalach: Kalach (food). --Off-shell (talk) 22:16, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

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Texas

I know that kolache are popular among some Czech heritage groups in Texas, but I think this article focuses too heavily on their presence in Texas, this article should really focus on the traditional pastry from the Czech Republic as well that there are other states like Nebraska where the pastry is just as ingrained in ethnic Czechs lifestyle. I would argue at a bare minimum Texas should be removed as a place of origin. Birdmanoftech (talk) 16:18, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

@Birdmanoftech: One may need to consult sources written in Czech. The Czech Wikipedia may have editors who can help find and add such information. As for place of origin, Texas is viewed as the place of origin of the klobasnek, not the kolache (but klobasnek are called "kolaches" in many parts of Texas). WhisperToMe (talk) 03:36, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

On usage of "kolache" for "klobasnek"

@Revirvlkodlaku:

About this edit: Thank you for catching that! I didn't realize klobasnek were already mentioned! (I think I control-F'ed for "Klobasnek" but "klobásník" was the spelling used).

Anyhow, the two sentences could be combined (as opposed to a straight revert) as they don't have exactly the same information. If anything I think more detail could be added, especially how some Czech Texans dislike how kolaches and klobasnek are conflated. Also I think it may help mentioning this in the lead since so many in the Houston area and elsewhere in Texas flat out think of klobasnek when someone says "kolache". WhisperToMe (talk) 03:39, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @WhisperToMe, thanks for bringing this up for discussion. I agree with you about combining the two sentences and the extra detail, but I don't think it's sufficiently relevant to the rest of the article to include mention of it in the lead. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)