Talk:Knowle West

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Featured articleKnowle West is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 27, 2011.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 28, 2011Good article nomineeListed
September 3, 2011Peer reviewReviewed
November 6, 2011Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Assessment[edit]

I have removed weasel words, added citations to reliable sources and organised the article. This could get to GA status with a little more work. Needs a good photo for the infobox, I will see what I can do in the next few weeks. Leave a message on my talk page if you wish to get involved. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:32, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Jez - I was a little confused by The Eagles mention on this page given the U.S. group of the same name. It strikes me there is scope for Wills Tobacco Factory material here. Had a look to find stuff but did not see anything obvious. Maybe KWMC people could contact Imperial and see if they had some stuff in the archives? Just a thought. Steve Virgin (talk) 11:37, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers Jez

Steve - when I worked for Imperial Tobacco, the Wills factory was generally referred to as being in Hartcliffe, not Knowle West, although it was only divided from the latter by Hartcliffe Way. It may be worth involving some of KWMC's contacts in trying to add to any information on the factory itself, as it provided employment to all the large estates (Knowle West, Hartcliffe & Withywood in particular) that bounded it. Bs5er (talk) 13:51, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the factory was in Hartcliffe, but of course many Knowle Westers worked there (and at the East Street factories, earlier. The article on W.D. & H.O. Wills could do with expansion. Oh, and about The Eagles (UK band) - the Americans stole their name. :-) Jezhotwells (talk) 14:53, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Images needed[edit]

How about some more attractive, informative images from Knowle West. The outside walls of the community center do not favorably represent the community. It looks uninteresting, strictly utilitarian. Folklore1 (talk) 20:23, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, can you take some? Jezhotwells (talk) 00:04, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Knowle West, Bristol/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk) 15:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I shall be taking up this review. Comments are based on this version. Please give me a few minutes to do the review, thanks! Jaguar (talk) 15:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments[edit]

This is a small and neat article. There are very few problems with it so I will only be concentrating on the problems on the article. I must point out that the lead itself looks very good and I see very few problems with it. But I have a few issues to make. Jaguar (talk) 15:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Lead:
  • I am happy to say that the lead does comply with WP:LEAD, so I see very few problems here.
  • "There are no major employers in Knowle West but there are many small local enterprises and larger businesses on nearby trading estates." - you could mention the nearby Imperial Tobacco factory here even though it is in Hartcliffe. It did have an impact with the jobs in the area when it closed down in 1990.
Added to lead. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:16, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no picture in the infobox. Although not a requirement for GA, it would be good to see a standard static image in the infobox.
Working on it, but may have to wait until weekend. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:16, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is OK, it is no major concern for GA. Jaguar (talk) 09:01, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • History:
  • "A new wave of development commenced in the 1960s at Inns Court, occasioned by the need for more homes following the devasting effects of the Bristol Blitz on the city." - this sentence doesn't make sense. The Bristol Blitz happened in the early 40s, so having the 1960s in the sentence may cause confusion.
  • "New homes were built on the Radburn principles which are now considered to be a failure" - why was it considered to be a failure?
Both points addressed, I think. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:03, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Community centres and youth clubs:
  • "The area has local shopping facilities, a library, cafés and community centres and youth clubs" - no need for the extra conjunction (and).
  • Depreviation:
  • "The closure of the Imperial Tobacco factory at Hartcliffe, just outside the area, in 1990 meant the loss of 5,000 jobs and possibly a further 20,000 throughout South Bristol." - this setence insn't great grammatically. How about Due to the inclosure of the Imperial Tobacco factory at Hartcliffe in 1990, 5,000 jobs and possible a further 20,000 jobs weere lost throughout South Bristol.
Addressed. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:03, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Enviroment:
  • "There are also three children's playgrounds and a few small open spaces" - this interesting. But what does 'small open spaces' mean?
  • "There are 42 acres (17 ha) of natural open space and 69 acres (28 ha) hectares of informal open space in Knowle West." - this doesn't really explain much. What does informal open space mean? I know what natural open space means, but the sentence doesn't explain much about the open space in Knowle West.
Addressed. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:03, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Once these points have been addressed, I will be happy to award Knowle West GA status. Jaguar (talk) 15:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review, I will work on this tomorrow. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:49, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I belive that i have addressed all of those points. Jezhotwells (talk) 08:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for addressing these points. The article is complete now, I will be happy to give it GA status. Well done. Another Bristol GA! Jaguar (talk) 09:01, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Overall summary[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This is a nice and well referenced article.

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    It is well referenced.
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    Yes, well referenced.
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
    There are very few images but this is no major concern.
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

GA - and the elephant in the room[edit]

I'm disappointed(but hardly surprised) to see this make GA. The problem is simple, and no reflection at all on a non-Bristolian reviewer who's working purely from knowledge gained via this article. Knowle West is a grim place - everything that can go wrong with an area in terms of unemployment and crime, Knowle West has it. Yet this article presents it as some sylvan suburb indistinguishable from Knowle or Totterdown. Any Bristol resident knows how inaccurate this is. Knowle West is one of the half-dozen worst residential areas of Bristol (ordering them would be POV, but any metric will highlight the same bunch of names).

Where's the crime? Where's the park full of burning Astras? Where's the rioting, and the massed assault on a local police station when it was rumoured a convicted paedophile was inside? What about Merrywood School, a school so beyond hope it was abandoned as such, to become an adult education centre trying to teach basic literacy to the same kids it had failed to reach a few years earlier? A school with an infra-red security fence that looks like something from the Berlin Wall.

Is completeness, and it would have to be said basic accuracy, not an issue for GA status? This omission is serious. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:57, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that anything negative would be put into a GA review. Crime and rioting in places like Bristol are common sense; a GA should not fail just because the area is rough? Jaguar (talk) 16:55, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The point isn't that Knowle West is rough, it's that the article is failing to mention that it's rough. This would be like omitting to say that Clifton is full of obnoxious, braying students, or that it's easy to buy muesli in Montpelier. These are key aspects of any of those places, a description isn't complete without them. Bristol certainly isn't full of "crime and rioting" either, just parts of it (and I'd note that local people in St Pauls gave the rioters short shrift last week and packed them on their way). Andy Dingley (talk) 17:03, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I must admit that I didn't spot any bias in the article but bearing in mind that I have never visited Knowle West (or at least I think I haven't) I don't really know what it is like! I think that the article might need a mention of local crime in the area, but I don't think it needs a reassesment at the moment. For example, when I nominated Portsmouth for GA I very well know that Portsmouth can get so rough sometimes but I didn't really like to mention that in the article! Knowle West is looking good; but some more information can be added. Jaguar (talk) 17:11, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Cities aren't rough, districts within them are. I don't think "Portsmouth" would count as rough, no worse than Bristol. However I'm sure that it has a district of "Pompey dog end" or somewhere that is rough, compared to "Pompey Green on the Hill". This is what Knowle West is like to Bristol. If a friend was moving to a city and asked you where to look for a flat, this would be on the list of four or five names you'd mention straight off to not even look at. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:25, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to introduce properly referenced material that reflects your opinion. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:37, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have added some crime stats and information about drug use. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:12, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Jez. I know you're local, so any comment on this would be appreciated. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article looks much more complete now. I must admit as a non Bristolian I did not know that Knowle West was actually all what it seemed. Anyway, there is probably now no reason to renominate it at GAN. Jaguar (talk) 10:25, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics[edit]

This section is based on data for Filwood with the statement that "Knowle West is roughly co-terminus with the Filwood ward". However Filwood (ward) mentions "Filwood Park, Lower Knowle and Inns Court" but not Knowle West. We need a source showing the two terms are interchangeable otherwise problems occur with statements like "Six out of eight areas in Knowle West are ranked as being economically deprived" which is based entirely on data for Filwood. --Pontificalibus (talk) 09:15, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good point - i will reword and find cite. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:41, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move?[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:15, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Knowle West, Bristol → Knowle West – Relisted since it is now off the main page so that should not impact the discussion. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:28, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but not whilst it is on the front page. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:33, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I thought it was only done that way if there's multiple neighbourhoods with the same name, but I'm probably wrong. SalfEnergy 11:39, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Currently as this is on the main page, it is move protected, but will look at this next week, it was suggested during the FAC review. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:10, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with this proposed move. It will need admin action to delete the redirect. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:39, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- If it is ambiguous, where are the rivals? Peterkingiron (talk) 19:33, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - seems reasonable.— Rod talk 20:05, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

field boundaries[edit]

Does anyone have information about where the original field boundaries were? me@raymilton.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.139.129 (talk) 10:42, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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