Talk:Killing of Azelle Rodney

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On 22 January 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Shooting of Azelle Rodney to Killing of Azelle Rodney. The result of the discussion was moved.

Renaming article[edit]

I'd suggest that the article be renamed "Death of Azelle Rodney", in line with similar articles: Death of Mark Duggan, Death of Jean Charles de Menezes, Death of Ian Tomlinson, Death of Harry Stanley, and Death of James Ashley. ARK (talk) 22:55, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done Jim Michael (talk) 02:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! ARK (talk) 14:12, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suspected?[edit]

The use of the word suspected in this article, especially the lede, is massively NPOV. Dude was guilty as hell.

Is there any sympathy out there for him? A habitual criminal carrying illegal firearms on his way to commit a violent crime whose every action put himself into that situation. Do you give someone like that the benefit of the doubt? He got what he richly deserved. 92.15.52.18 (talk) 11:36, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The 'dispute' re:guns is also very dodgy and unclearly sourced. I don't see any contradiction between 'the guns were loaded and fully operational' and 'two out of three of the guns were loaded and fully operational'. 92.15.61.236 (talk) 10:13, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead - Unlawful killing[edit]

The Public Inquiry conclusion has not been superseded, overturned or otherwise nullified. It still stands.

The Public Inquiry took the place of a coroner's inquest which is tasked with ascertaining cause and manner of death (natural causes, misadventure, unlawful, etc). When cause cannot be ascertained to a reasonable level, an open verdict may be recorded so the matter can be revisited if new information/evidence should later come to light. Inquests do not generally apportion blame (except perhaps in very rare cases of narrative verdicts) they simply attempt to ascertain facts. Otherwise, everytime an inquest found a death unlawful, there'd be no need for a criminal trial and the legal system could have suspects 'go straight to jail-not pass go-not collect £200'.
There's no conflict between the Inquiry conclusion and the murder trial verdict. Murder is a legal term describing a deliberate and usually pre-planned act of an intention to kill. The trial jury found that evidence presented to them didn't support that charge. I doubt there's an actual criminal charge of unlawful killing but every time a suspect is found not guilty of murder or manslaughter, it doesn't overturn or supersede the related inquest verdict. Likewise the Inquiry conclusion has not been overturned nor superseded by the trial verdict.
One of the most noteworthy factors of this police killing is that it was found to be unlawful by an Inquiry. An extremely rare outcome indeed. Then of lesser note and typically, no officer was successfully prosecuted for the crime. That still doesn't alter the important inquiry outcome. There is little doubt that unlawful killing must be mentioned in the lead. That is how Rodney was found to be killed and what the official record still reflects. The article is, after all, about the death of Rodney.
As for potential for libel, this only becomes possible if the lead is edited to include the officer's name and associates it with the Inquiry conclusion in a way the Inquiry did not. The Inquiry did not conclude that PC Long deliberately killed Rodney. It concluded that Rodney was killed unlawfully and that PC Long could not rationally be believed. These are the nuances of the law which are not too difficult to understand and libel is avoided simply by not reproducing something that is untrue or unverifiable.
The lead can be tidied/smartened up for sure but the radical overhaul earlier today leaving out the crucial unlawful killing conclusion was an edit too far.Selector99 (talk) 15:00, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Death of James Ashley which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Shooting of Andy Lopez which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]