Talk:Kievan Letter

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Kievian Letter[edit]

Kasaars (Khazars) had not any influlence at Kiova or Sambatas (Szambatasz) after 834. By that year it become Magyar and rebelling Kabirs capital of Etelköz and remained so up to 882 or 892. From Nestor´s Chronicle one can read: In year 6390 (882) Oleg started his war trek and took with him lot of warriors; Varjags (Gutas), Tshuds, Slavs, Meris (Merjas), Vepsäs (Ves), Krivitshis, and come to Smoliensk (Smolensk) and took over the power and settled there his own men. From there (Smoliensk) he went southward, captured Ljubets and settled there his own men. When they come to the hills of Kiova, Oleg heard that Askold and Dir were already there nominated as Ruhtinaz (Knjaz) (by Ugris). He hidded warriors in his boats (original text uses Finnish word laiva = ship) and one part he left at the rear, and went himself with his son to them. He came with rod boats to Ugris mountains (three hills of Kiev). Askold and Dir were brutally murdered (according to formely planned plan). Askold was later buried to Uhorski (Ugri) Hill.

Another text says; In 840 the Swede-Russians of Taman peninsula at the site of former Greek town of Hermonassa from kingdom of Tamutarakan raided Amastris, a Byzantine town on the southern shores of the Black Sea. Khazars, being defeated by the Arabs in 737 (which carried away 20.000 slaves, mostly Slavs to Oriental slave markets) appealed to Byzantium for assistance in building the chain of forts along the lower Don and Donets rivers. In 858 a force of "Russians" from the north, probably with the Swedish?? (Askold and Dir) assistance, entered into agreement with powerful Magyars who controlled Kijev at that time and settled in the city, making it their base for a combined attack together with the Russians from Taman kingdom, on Constantinople, in 860. The motive for this allied attack may well have been a decline in trade between the Baltic and the Black Sea, to detriment of the "Russians" of the north as well as those of Taman, when the Khazar-Bysantine alliance attempted to cut the ancient trade-route along the lower Don and Donets valleys. Thus all Khazar influence at Kijev had vanished before 835.

There was a large Jewish community at Kiova (Kvenugard / Sambatas) during this period. The Jews were reputed slave traders which distributed the mainly Slav slaves to the slave markets at Byzantium, Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia, India and China. Kiev become one of the largest slave market in Eastern Europe. The reason for this was simple. The town lies at the point from which trading flotillas could go down Dinjeper (Dnjeper) and Black Sea to Constantinople and back again in one summer season. It become therefore a convenient centre where merchants from Baltic and forest zone north of the lands of Dnjeper basin could gather together and sail together southward. The annual Kijev-Constantinople trade alone was estimated to be 10.000 tons annually of which half were slaves. ( One slave 50 kg means 100.000 slaves per annum.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.187.107 (talk) 19:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OKHQURÜM[edit]

Regarding the transliteration to the term: "OKHQURÜM:" According to Dr. Gábor Hosszú Assoc. Prof. Budapest University of Technology and Economics in the 'Revised proposal for encoding the Khazarian Rovas script in the SMP of the UCS' of June 19, 2011 the transliteration of the word(s) is something like: "Oǳïðïq Ilik" [Ilik being a name] or OGhDiQ ILK LarG (talk) 19:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Persian historian of the XIII century, Fakhr ad-Din Mubarak Shah Marwarrudi (translated by V. V. Bartold):

"The Khazars also have a letter that comes from (the letter) of the Rus, a branch of the Rumians, which is located near them, and uses this letter, and they (the Khazars?) they call the Rumians "Russ". The Khazars write from left to right and the letters do not connect with each other. They have 21 letters: [originally written in Arabic letters]. The branch of the Khazars that uses this letter professes Judaism.

Strangely, the signature in the letter is from right to left!

there are 6 characters on the letter, in the picture on behalf of Assoc. Prof. G. Vékony. See the book: Vékony, Gábor (2004) added 2 more characters, this is called pulling a snake on a globe.

𐱅𐰇𐰆𐰿 𐰘𐰛 - it says: Küonak - "read", modern Chuvash word "Kĕneke" - book (read).

𐱅 - t

𐰴 - q

𐰽 - s

𐰜 - q Dog Nogai (talk) 02:05, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If it was you who added the Turkic spelling, please add a source to the article as well. Alaexis_¿question? 11:00, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kievian letter[edit]

it has been established (see Golden page 96) that the Kievian letters were not written by Khazar Jews. in fact the letters were not writen in Kiev at all but were destined to Kiev. So there is need to balance the lead as it contradicts modern scholarship.--Tritomex (talk) 23:30, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It hasn't been established, it has been argued by one scholar (Erdal) in opposition to others (Golb, etc). This should be mentioned of course. Zero^talk 15:07, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No Zeero, this is not the case. Beyond Erdal, other modern scholars of Khazars share this view: Orjol, Schwartzfus, Rona Tas, Golden, Vásary and others all agree that the propositions of Golb and Pritsak do not represent correct understanding of Kievan letter. As it is evident from "The World of the Khazars: New Perspectives" P96-103, this is today the majority view and this article must reflect this fact.--Tritomex (talk) 18:06, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]