Talk:Khuzdul

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Untitled[edit]

This page really needs an external links section. As of yet I am unable to find any. Should anyone see this message, either post what they are or just put in the section yourself please. Thank you. --MrFiver

Added one. AnonMoos 04:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Is this relevant?[edit]

"However, it should be noted that Tolkien was not anti-Semitic; he had at least one Jewish friend, stated that it would be an honor if his name was Jewish in origin - it wasn't - and bitterly disagreed with Nazi beliefs." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.165.168.78 (talk) 00:06, October 17, 2005‎ (UTC)

It isn't. I'm removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.169.55.24 (talk) 21:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here Goes Nothing[edit]

I'm interested in finding out about the most thourough development of Khuzdul. I'm interested in developing it into a fully-functional language, or at least finding out about the attempts thus far at that (ljrogers@mtu.edu). Is there anyone of enough enthusiasm out there to contact me and lead me to or through "the bibliography"? You know, past attempts, fan word lists, etc. And if you would like to give me lessons in it, I'd be willing to listen and/or learn. If anyone wants the same for Marc Okrand's Atlantean, I will gladly provide it. Kwam pagonos. Free of charge. Maybe I'll try Zompist and LangMaker later on.

Epigraphist 15:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Try the link "An analysis of Khuzdul" from the main article. That's an article I have written about Khuzdul, and I have tried to cover everything there is to find about the language, find connections, draw conclusions, and make up rules for a somewhat functional use of it. It could be at least one step for you. By the way, how do you edit the headword? It should not be *Khuzdûl, but Khuzdul. Leongut (talk • contribs) 13:01, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A little original research[edit]

This is original research, so I'm not putting it in the article, but I have a theory. The most obvious phrase, and one of the only terms in Khuzdul that is not a placename and yet is repeated in the trilogy (suggesting it to be original material) is Baruk khazâd. This sounds a lot like a phrase that initiates many Jewish prayer sequences in Hebrew: אתה ברוך, meaning "blessed art thou", and transliterated as barúkh atá (pronounced /baˌʁuχ aˈta/). In all the cantorial tunes I've heard it sung in, the last syllable of that phrase is held the longest, just like how the last syllable of the phrase in Khuzdul has a long vowel mark. So it's just an idea, but I have a feeling it could be accurate. --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:42, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree there's every likelihood that Tolkien was influenced (consciously or not) by the sound of the word ברוך, but what more can we say than that? —Tamfang (talk) 01:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I like the theory! Tolkien did what he thought was beautiful, and later, if possible, tried to explain it ethymologically. Cf. Moria. Thanks for the tip, and the praise for my article! I have revised it several times since publication, but have not had the time to republish it. Leongut (talk) 06:50, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting theory indeed. For what it's worth, it made me add some references to the text about Hebrew connections in the article. De728631 (talk) 21:00, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in the other half of the war cry, Khazâd aimênu! (the Dwarves are upon you), the last word resembles another Hebrew word: immānu, if I remember right, means 'with us'. —Tamfang (talk) 05:13, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Primary source material[edit]

The article claims "A small amount of material on Khuzdul phonology and root modifications has survived which is yet to be published." and the citation is from over 15 years ago. Is there any update to this, for instance in Parma Eldalamberon or Vinyar Tengwar? 218.215.39.157 (talk) 01:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Khuzdûl[edit]

Khuzdul or Khuzdûl? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:20, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both are used; even Helge Fauskanger, extremely careful with his linguistics, writes Khuzdul and notes in passing "also Khuzdûl". Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:59, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Khuzdul is the usual form, with only rare instances of Khuzdûl.

Khuzdul → LotR, p.1114; LotR Index/Dwarves, Khuzdul; The Return of the Shadow Index/Dwarves; Silmarillion Index/Khazâd; The Treason of Isengard Index/Khuzdul; The War of the Ring Index/Khuzdul
Khuzdul/Khuzdûl →The Peoples of Middle Earth Index/Khuzdul

Compare also Mazarb·ul “of documents”, Azan·ul “of shadows”, Fundin·ul “of Fundin” (→ Parma Eldalamberon 17, 47; Reader’s Companion, p. 269) Lammengollon (talk) 10:58, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, all good stuff. Let's stay with Khuzdul. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:06, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]