Talk:Kalle Mattson

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Removal of sourced content about band members - please explain per WP:BRD[edit]

‎Theused32, as part three of the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, please explain your reasons for removing sourced content about the members of Mattson's band. —Anne Delong (talk) 11:50, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Delong, I removed the information regarding Mattson's band as I deemed it not relevant as Mattson is a solo artist. He performs live with an ever changing backing band depending on the tour but he writes and records primarily solo. Theused32 (talk) 22:50, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Theused32, this may be the case in 2014; I don't know. However, from the information in the multiple sources I'm listing below, he did indeed have a band for the first three releases. The reports regularly either say "and his band", or refer to Kalle Mattson as "they". Kalle himself says "we" in interviews. His bio on last.fm, which it appears he wrote himself, begins "In the three short years since Kalle (kāl) Mattson began writing songs, he and his band have grown from a Dylan-influenced solo act into a full on experimental folk-rock quintet." From reading the reviews, it's apparent that although Kalle wrote the songs and was the lead singer, the other musicians contributed to the success of the albums and should be mentioned. Unless that was him playing the horn, drums, electric guitar and bass....

—Anne Delong (talk) 03:41, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Delong A lot of that seems a little outdated now I think. Kalle hasn't been marketed as a "band" since 2011 (that Last.fm looks particularly old), all press photos are of just him, he's the only one to do interviews and almost every show is listed as Kalle Mattson regardless if he has a band with him or not. Looking at the album credits and reading recent interviews and reviews he writes the songs, almost if not all of the parts the musicians are playing and plays majority of the instruments on the records, seems to be the case since the first record... Also by my count well over 10 different backing musicians have played with him over the past five years, and the fact that he has backing musicians doesn't mean they need to be included in his personal page.Theused32 (talk) 06:44, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Theused32, this is not the artist's "personal page"; it is an encyclopedia article about his career to date - all of it. The fact that he now may have left these band mates behind and tours with various musicians doesn't alter the past, and the fact that the information is "dated" doesn't make it irrelevant. If this were a promotional page for the artist, it could include just current information if that was best for his career, but a neutral biography needs to reflect what is in the published sources. I haven't found any liner notes on line, so I can't discuss them, but they would not be considered independent sources anyway. Being a band's "front man" is not the same as being a solo artist. Here's another source which calls this a band: http://soundvat.com/2011/06/12/everything-you-need-to-know-about-kalle-mattson-and-why-you-need-know-it/ . Here's another: http://www.saultstar.com/2012/09/09/music-now-wainios-full-time-job . Surely he didn't win an award as "Best new album by a group" all by himself? —Anne Delong (talk) 11:36, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As an example, Gordon Lightfoot is a well known singer-songwriter, yet the article about him includes a section, Gordon Lightfoot#Sound, which credits those whose musicianship contributed to his success. —Anne Delong (talk) 11:59, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Delong Here are multiple sources that refer to Mattson in the singular and as a singer-songwriter not as a frontman in a band that happens to have his name as you say: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19046-kalle-mattson-someday-the-moon-will-be-gold/ http://www.popmatters.com/review/180762-kalle-mattson-someday-the-moon-will-be-gold/ http://exclaim.ca/News/kalle_mattson_unveils_someday_moon_will_be_gold_album_books_canadian_tour http://music-mix.ew.com/2013/11/26/kalle-mattson-new-song-darkness/ http://www.leaderpost.com/touch/story.html?id=10173208 http://www.saultstar.com/2014/08/20/sault-native-to-preform-at-home http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/sudbury/sault-ste-marie-s-kalle-mattson-awaits-word-on-polaris-prize-short-list-1.2698439 When I deleted that paragraph I deemed mentioning his band irrelevant as Kalle Mattson is clearly a person (it's his name) not a band and it is an article about Mattson as a person, not about the musicians he employs. But if there is a precedent like you say with the Gordon Lightfoot article then that's fine, but we should probably mention all of the people that have played with him not just a few. Theused32 (talk) 16:33, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All the examples that you have given above are from the past year or so, whereas the one that I found were older. It seems to me that Mattson did work with a regular group of musicians, referred to by many as his "band", for his first three releases, and then made a change and began collaborating and touring with other group.
To say that he was "employing" the musicians would mean that they were were paid up front for albums (that is, were studio musicians without any creative or artistic rights) and on salary when performing. The references don't support that, and it's an unlikely arrangement for a group who started out as college students.
Some of the more recent musicians and groups are already mentioned in the article. The fact that these are all better known than the ones who have been left unmentioned makes it appear to be puffery, especially since none of the articles about these other musicians or groups mention Mattson.
It seems to me that musicians who made a significant contribution to his career (for example, by performing with him regularly for years, working with him on one or more entire albums or helping him pto win an award) should certainly be mentioned and their role identified, whereas musicians who just filled in for a few days, or played one or two gigs with him, need not be included even if they happen to be well known. However, I am only concerned that the small section that was deleted, confirming that at one time the musicians mentioned in it were members of his band, be restored (perhaps with the addition of an end date if there is one to be found). Any information about other relevant musicians that you would like to add in other sections of the article are fine with me as long as there is a reliable source.—Anne Delong (talk) 22:19, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
PS-The article seems to have a pattern of promoting Mattson's accomplishments without crediting others. For example, the article makes a point of stating that the video "Thick As Thieves" was created using $250 of materials, but makes no mention of the team of animators who worked on it, leaving the impression that he did it all himself. —Anne Delong (talk) 22:19, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Delong Yup fair enough, maybe a more extensive career biography should be written with mention of the band members in that. Many of the "well known acts" have contributed more to his records (judging by album credits) than some of the members you originally listed, not exactly puffery (this Ottawa Citizen article mentions The Wooden Sky's involvement on his newest record http://ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/gavin-gardiner-always-seeking-perfection). Also re: the Thick As Thieves video it was directed by Kevin Parry who is mentioned in the Water Falls section.Theused32 (talk) 02:17, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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