Talk:Kaldi

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Kaldi[edit]

This is actually an error. The legend as I've seen recorded, has Kaldi as an Ethiopian.

Personally, I'd like to think of Kaldi as my personal hero :) Wandering Star 01:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone celebrate St Kaldi's Day? If not, why not? Leushenko (talk) 02:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to this source, the guy's name was Khalid (also spelled Khaled), not Kaldi, and he was Arab. [1] Tiamut^talk 19:06, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, I've gathered a number of sources (google books, mostly) in the bottom-two sections at talk:coffee. FYI, the myth of Kaldi gets different treatment in different sources, but I think the reason is that most sources are dedicated to "the coffee drink" or "the history of (something else)" and so their authors have not made a great effort to verify their research. Here are the best sources I've found: [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Agradman ^talk/_contribs 20:09, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for those. I've read the first one which is very good. I'm in no rush to restore anything that was there and will continue reading and following the discussion with interest. Tiamut^talk 20:42, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Islamic Monk"? Probably Not[edit]

This page says Kaldi gave the beans "to an Islamic monk in a nearby monastery". Many Kaldi accounts do not identify the monk as Islamic, and in fact it was far more likely to have been a Christian monk. For one thing, monasticism is forbidden in Islam, according to the Wikipedia page on Monasticism. For another, Christianity was introduced into Ethiopia in the first century (A.D. 1-100), well before the range of years when various accounts place the Kaldi story (A.D. 300-900). Islam was not introduced into Ethiopia until the 600's, when Christianity was the dominant religion there (and remains so today at 60%). Monasticism was a common feature of African and European Christianity in the first millennium. (Jewish monasticism also exists in Ethiopia, but dates to much later, and on a much smaller scale.)

Some accounts refer to a "Sufi" or an "Islamic holy man". If he was such, he likely wasn't a monk or at a monastery. If a monk or monastery was involved, he likely wasn't Muslim.

While the historical context suggests that the current wording, "an Islamic monk in a nearby monastery", is highly improbable, we are here not trying to document what actually happened (since there are no contemporary sources to establish that) but to relate the myth accurately as it has come down to us. So perhaps our best bet is to go back to the earliest written account of this story by Antoine Faustus Nairon (1670) -- which is likely whence all other modern accounts derive along with their many variations -- and see what his original terminology was, and relate the story here in those terms. However, I haven't seen his original language, nor even an English translation of it, but rather various paraphrasings that mention Nairon but do not quote him verbatim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.65.17 (talk • contribs) 08:02, 18 December 2014‎