Talk:Jeff Buckley/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2


Song lines

the lines "even in this world of lies/there's innocence etc" are from a song of Buckley's called Yard of Blonde Girls. Someone needs to change the line in the article "notable for his interesting personality; just doesn't sound right 82.148.40.144 (talk) 11:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


Tribute Songs

Ok some of them can be verified, like the PJ Harvey one for instance, but people seem to have added a bunch of songs that just mention something about a river. Can we reduce this list? Other artists have had songs written about them but haven't needed such a section. Was it of any particular use to anyone? If not i'll grab the handful of songs that are verifiable and delete the rest. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 02:07, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I support the list being reduced to what's verifiable. It will be necessary to pass a Good article review. dissolvetalk 22:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Every time i search for citations i get a big list of blogs who've copied the list from wikipedia, thus creating an eternal loop of people citing blog material and putting it back. I've removed unreferenced Buckley tributes from the article but if anyone can find a reference for any of the songs below they should go back in the article.

Tribute songs

Thanks. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 20:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Unreleased recordings section in prose

Is this even appropriate? I think it's very valuable and i'm sure many with find it interesting but i'm not sure if some parts are unencyclopaedic- e.g. Song titles circulated by fans.../other songs popular with fans... How can this be rephrased? Citation will only be from fansites. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Archive Talk Page?

I propose archiving much of the talk page seeing as it's now irrelevant to the article in it current form and "This page is 64 kilobytes long" seems like quite a statement for a talk page. What do the rest of you think? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 14:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Any discussion that hasn't been commented on this year can probably safely be archived. WP:ARCHIVE dissolvetalk 17:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Archived. A little hasty i admit but there's a lack of other active contributors. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 19:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Main photo

I'm convinced this isn't going to stand up through the GA review. Is there a free one available anywhere? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 14:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

There's one on commons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Jeff.jpg released under GNU, but I'm not sure how it was made, so I don't know if it's actually free use. dissolvetalk 17:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I asked User: Giggy about it and it's not GNU and it's been deleted. The search for a good picture continues! FYI: Dr. Dre suffered similarly but still passed GA and got a picture after promotion. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 14:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

RE: Archive - Vocal Range

Following a thorough read of the archived talk only one issue is unresolved - Vocal range (Archive link 1 Archive link 2)

My interpretation of the discussion suggests that there are far too many conflicting sources, with statements varying from 3-7 octaves. Until a quality source from a musical professional is found, reference to Buckley's vocal range should be avoided. Refer to archive links for more insight. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 19:35, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a straw man argument. The statement was that he is above average. Many sources were given for that phrasing. Exact range was avoided because it's well established that there is no standard way to measure vocal range. Where is the good source that should be taken with equal weight, which says he is only average or below average: that is what is needed to disprove that he is above average?

We are to believe that while journalists and music journalists alike, their editors, and indeed their publications are unqualified to speak to or verify comment on the quality of his voice, any self professed amateur singer on the discussion page is. We are also to believe that the statement means nothing: That once again these professional writers and their editors have completely overlooked wasted words on the page. How do we know this? Again the amateur singers of Wikipedia are here to tell us. A well sourced comment was deleted because people citing no sources took issue on the talk page. It is news to me that music journalists are unqualified to speak on the subject of music. What sort of "musical professional" are you even looking for if not someone who reviews music and writes about it to make their living? There is no one whose job it is, is solely to determine someone's exact vocal range. Most articles of any length on Buckley make reference to him having a large range. Statements that are simply seen as laying the groundwork for understanding the artist published in print are considered too controversial to write here. It's absence from this one is conspicuous. This is mediation to mediocrity. Rolling Stone itself calls his voice "striking and multioctave" right up front, but when it comes to reporting about music those here know more than Rolling Stone, and need no source to prove it.Gripdamage (talk) 15:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand your frustration with this situation because i feel similarly. I rejected the sources from music journalists as a variety of them have given wildly conflicting information regarding his range, betraying a lack of understanding of the subject. I have no problem with music journalists and their profession but the majority have zero formal musical training and this is what worries me. Similarly, i found a interview with Tim Buckley in which he claimed to have a 6 1/2 octave voice, something which is citable but clearly untrue.
Personally i feel a simple comment regarding his range would suffice(i.e. Buckley had a large singing range in the head register). Sadly journalists only refer to his full range (including falsetto) while what makes Buckley remarkable is his head voice (Think of those highs on Grace, Dream Brother and So Real). If you can find a decent source please add something like that to the article.

Perhaps maybe something like: critics often laud his vocal range and control(cite: rolling stone/Q magazine etc) Thanks. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 15:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the biggest problem here is that he has hit a few semi-controlled high notes in the whistle register, and for whatever reason many Jeff Buckley fans think that it's just an extension of his falsetto and cite it as part of his "natural" range. Though I still don't get why everyone seems to say that he has 4 octaves, according to [1], the lowest note he hits in pure chest is an A2, and even if you include the little squeak he does in Gunshot Glitter (an Eb6), that's only 3 octaves and 6 semi-tones. I don't deny that Jeff Buckley has an amazing voice, but his range has been over-exaggerated almost as much as Mariah Carey's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.105.149.48 (talk) 13:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree completely. I don't think we ought to say he has 4 octaves. I think we just ought to say that this is someone known for the quality of his voice, similar to how just about every professional Buckley article makes some mention of it. - Gripdamage (talk) 16:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. I'll look to add this to the article: "Buckley's singing style and vocal technique is often complimented by critics"(ref1)(ref2)(ref3)(ref4) - I don't think we need to say much more, the samples literally speak for themselves. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 14:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I am so glad the vocal range nonsense is gone from this article. :) It makes sense for someone like Cicilia Bartoli where vocal range and singing technique are so tightly definable. The above comment sums it perfectly. I even put this page on watch at one point due to my amazement at the back-and-forth over the subject. Beetlecat (talk) 20:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

GA review

I'll be doing the review today. I'll read it first, copy-editing as I go, then read it again paying closer attention to the details. I'll write the review during that phase. I edit sporadically throughout the day, and hour here and there. The review should be completed within 24 hours. Lara❤Love 12:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The review is complete and available here. Lara❤Love 18:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
The article has now been listed as a GA. Good work! In improving this article, you have improved Wikipedia. Thank you. :) LaraLove|Talk 17:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Discography

Would you mind if I started a Jeff Buckley discography article? That way the discography tables, unreleased songs and tributes can all be transferred wholesale there, making the parent Jeff Buckley much more concise and less listy. We'll then add a {{main}} template and leave only the studio albums at the parent article. See: Nirvana or Pearl Jam (just a couple of FAs from the top of my head) indopug (talk) 17:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hadn't thought about the possibliity of putting the unreleased songs and tribute songs there. I've had worries about those sections all along and you were definitely right about removing the covers list, there are no notable covers yet (a la All Along The Watchtower etc) and it became a forum for non-notable stuff. Personally i'd reduce the selected discography to Grace, Sketches, Mystery White Boy and the two legacy editions but i'm not sure what normal procedure is. I would also recommend that "Guest appearances and collaborations" go in there too as the most significant stuff is repeated in the body of the article anyway. I'll be sure to have a look when you're done. Thanks. Wait: Scrap the legacy thing i said, i see they have the same articles as their smaller earlier releases. No wait - The live at Sin-e ones don't. What's the normal thing to do regarding Legacy/expansion re-releases? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 17:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't know a lot about Jeff Buckley; I just saw his article at GAC and thought it was very good. I felt it could be easily made better by just shifting stuff to make it concise. As for your questions:
  • The band/musician article, ie Jeff Buckley, should only contain a list of his studio albums and their year of release. (like the articles I pointed out above). I guess that would be Grace and My Sweetheart.
  • Discography articles normally make any mention of reissues and re-releases, because they are never really that important as compared to the original record. So just the additional track-listing at the album's article is enough.
  • yeah the tribute songs can be deleted (since they don't belong at his discog as they aren't by him). I think unreleased recordings would be fine at the discog since Nirvana discography has such a section.
  • the documentaries don't seem to notable so they can be deleted as well. Amazing Grace is already mentioned in the article.
  • I think the Live at Sin-e articles should be merged. indopug (talk) 18:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll look to incorporate the other docs in the article as their pretty informative and well produced programs. Adios to tribute songs then? (Apologies to LaraLove as this should have been sorted pre-GA review!) Sillyfolkboy (talk) 18:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Improving the article

(Outside of the GA review) - I think the article would benefit from more reception/sales info on Sketches for My Sweetheart the Drunk and a section detailing Buckley's musical style. Any thoughts? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 16:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

On a related note - I agree with User:Indopug that the Sin-é articles (Live at Sin-é and Live at Sin-é (Legacy Edition)) should be merged. As should Corpus Christi Carol and Corpus Christi Carol (Jeff Buckley). Sillyfolkboy (talk) 16:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think there should be a Sin-é section incorporated into Jeff's page. It is afterall where he was first noticed and the reason why his career took off. Not to mention he recorded his first EP there. It was such an integral part of his career. What do you guys think? DreamBrother83 (talk) 09:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Instruments played by Jeff that should be included in his 'Instruments' section. Here are Jeff's album credits from Grace: Voice, Guitars, Harmonium, Organ, Dulcimer, Tabla. These should also be included. I've tried editing Jeff's instrument section before but it kept on getting deleted, even though I gave a reference link in my edit summary. (http://www.jeffbuckley.com/pages/albums/grace) Also under Jeff's 'Notable Instruments' section it only mentions that he played a Fender Telecaster. He also played a Gibson Les Paul Custom (Black Beauty), and Rickenbacker 360/12.(http://www.jeffbuckley.com/rfuller/buckley/faq/25gear.html). And finally some edits need to be made to Jeff's 'Genres' section. Currently it states that Jeff's music is alternative rock and folk. This is very vague and not even accurate. Jeff's music was far from folk or alternative. Jeff said, "I guess it's understandable why it's misconstrued that I'm a folk guy, because people who play in small places with one guitar usually are. But that shit's dead." (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:u5N81jnSZ3UJ:www.jeffbuckley.com/rfuller/buckley/words/features/rs-sonalsorises.html+jeff+buckley+interview+folk+is+dead&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca). Folk music afterall is played on an acoustic guitar. All of Jeff's songs are electric. Personally I think his 'Genres' section should read as following, minus the bracketed examples. Rock, Jazz, Blues, Avant-garde (ex. 'Tongue' [Grace EPs]), Qawwali (ex. Yeh Ho Halka Halka Saroor Hai, Dream Brother, New Year's Prayer), Classical (ex. Corpus Christi Carol, Hallelujah, etc.) Ambient (ex. You & I).DreamBrother83 (talk) 22:01, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I have tried uploading a higher resolution image of Jeff's current Wiki profile photo and gave proper references but it keeps getting reverted to the lower resolution version. Any idea why this is keeps occurring?DreamBrother83 (talk) 20:57, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Another thing that should be included is more pictures of Jeff. Pictures from his Gods & Monsters Days, Sin-é era, Grace and concert tours, etc...I'm waiting to hear back from Merri Cyr about the possibility of using some of her pictures. Does anyone know how to tell if a certain picture is fair use or not?DreamBrother83 (talk) 21:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Correction: it was not Rufus Wainwright who sang Hallelujah on the Shrek Soundtrack

It was John Cale's version. Rufus Wainwright did a cover of it too, but John Cale's version is found on the soundtrack. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.110.1.201 (talk) 21:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed the Shrek reference. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 00:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Cale's version is in the film, Wainwright's is on the soundtrack released on CD and cassette. Reliable source here.[2] So technically, the statement as phrased is accurate, restored it. dissolvetalk 04:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Cheers for that. I had trouble finding a good source. I'll put the reference on the Shrek soundtrack article for future reference. On a related note: why does google not seem to pick up allmusic at all? It's like it lives in a webcrawler blackhole. Cheers. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 17:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah Allmusic blocks Googlebot and other web robots with its robots.txt file. Its because Allmusic is generated from a database and would have a ridiculously high number of "web pages" based on all the possible database queries. dissolvetalk 19:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Non-Notable

Does this guy really need an article? He only made like one album and the only people who like his music are pedophiles and fat people. --98.196.33.67 (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I find that racist to all the fat paedos like me. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 17:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Swaffle. I think this is the best response to a potential wind-up ever.Fol de rol troll (talk) 23:24, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Roadie

He was also a roadie for the Frames prior to his tribute concert performance, that should be mentioned somewhere. 98.66.147.183 (talk) 00:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

While not exactly with The Frames, there's a radio interview from WFUV with Glen Hansard where he said that Buckley was the guitar tech for the backing band for The Commitments in 1991, that toured the U.S. for that film's U.S. premieres. Hansard said he played at Sin-é when they were in New York and was joined by Buckley for a Van Morrison tune, making it the first time Buckley played there, which might be accurate but Hansard's other statements seemed a bit exaggerated and inaccurate. The interview is a primary source though.
There are reliable secondary sources that Buckley actually played guitar in that band (along with Bronagh Gallagher and Buckley's friend Carla Azar). It was a one week gig and only gets one paragraph in the Dream Brother bio (p. 140), but if there's consensus that those gigs are notable, I can add it. dissolvetalk 02:30, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

How is it

that we can solve problems with ancienc text? This was a MAN not a PICTURE. 128.197.244.189 (talk) 13:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand. What is the problem? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 13:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for my previous dynamism-- I have user name now I plan on holding for epochs without issue. Problem is simply that man cannot do things on own-- how can we write about it like so? But is very general philosophical problem and wikipedia is reflecting view of world not of sky. So I think we are fine exceot my angst which is mostly chemical at any rate. Life is difficult but beautiful. Wikipedia like so. Linguistixuck (talk) 02:30, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

True?

Is it true that he swam in a hotel pool with his boots on when he was touring in Australia or is it urban legend?

I've never heard that, although Jeff Apter reports that Jeff and Joan went swimming in the ocean in Australia. Perhaps the story you heard is a corruption of that. Speedstyle (talk) 04:36, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Legacy

I've trimmed a lot from this section, as it seems like a trivia list or at best something a TV Guide anchor would say to show that Buckley has significance in pop culture. I'm thinking the section should be more about the redirection of his marketing (NPOV of course), estate handling, and basically a summary of things from the epilogue of Dream Brother and Pure Drop. I'm writing it in MS word for a future copy-and-paste operation, but I'd be interested if anybody had comments on this. Speedstyle (talk) 18:08, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

If you do this copy-and-paste thingy please remember just to do the one edit and if you radically (and randomly) change and delete valuable content give a good reason.
Cheers. Snoop God (talk) 19:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Okay, that's fair. Could you please explain why you removed my other edits, however? What is POV in my edits? Speedstyle (talk) 20:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
[In response to a usertalk page post] I'm a little confused by what you're saying. I provided sources for correction of how he met Inger as well as his episode with Steve Berkowitz. You'll also see several sources in the section I added about his character. Do you mean that I need a source suggesting that relative to other artists, Jeff's personality is a big part of his legacy? If so, that should be pretty easy and wouldn't require undoing my other edits.
As far as I can see, the only unsourced thing I added was about the 2/4/1997 gig. I'll see what I can do about that, and it's fine if we leave that out for now. (The tidbit about him being nervous is sourced but nonnotable so it's fine to leave that out). Speedstyle (talk) 21:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


(Related parenthetical question: it it possible to reference "Wished for Song" since it has no page numbers?) Speedstyle (talk) 21:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Yes, just remember where in the book you got the quote, and maybe post here on the talk page approximately where in the book the information is from, (using some kind of marker) so that people can find it if they are so inclined ---Debollweevil (talk) 03:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Some of the edits are good and I can see the references. But you ended up changing different aspects without improving the article. Basically, if the thread in the editing is too random important stuff will be lost because there is twelve edits to dissect. You also deleted paragraphs (that other contributors had sourced) without explanation. Remember the page is not supposed to be written with the feel of an author, but it should be generic and colorless, and absolutely factual without trivia. Snoop God (talk) 22:08, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the advice. In the future, I'll separate big and little changes and give fuller edit summaries. Is the current version okay? Speedstyle (talk) 22:39, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The Character section goes against Wiki rules. Character is based on perception and point of view, so doesn't really have a place here. I would question the relevance also. You could add hundreds of similar quotes and anecdotes - but is it really appropriate? Snoop God (talk) 23:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how it goes against wiki rules, at least in principle, since this is sourced NPOV stuff. It is not arguing that Buckley was particularly good or that we should judge him in any particular way. I think it's relevant because it is a significant part of Buckley's fame.
For example, John Lennon and Michael Jackson are of comparable fame, but only Michael Jackson has an entire article devoted to his health and appearance. This is because Jackson's appearance is a large portion of his notability. Jeff Buckley is less notable than Michael Jackson, but it seems to me that Jeff's personality is at least as great a part of his notability as Jackson's appearance is to his notability. A quick Google search easily turns up article from which I quote, "Today, Buckley's fans are as interested in trading stories about his personal life as they are in swapping his music."
The problem with that is that it is an opinion, and that type of statement is nearly impossible to be proven one way or another. He is quite charismatic, I agree, but you will be hard pressed to find a source that, with a scientific approach, ties his charisma to his enduring popularity. ---Debollweevil (talk) 03:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Just to explain a bit further, Michael Jackson is first and foremost a musical artist, but his image was so unique, it is almost like he had a dual career as a fashion icon as well. That is the only reason that piece exists; because he was extremely notable both as an artist and a "fashion icon". Charisma is a bit of a different animal; Jeff had a ton of it, but musicians are somewhat expected to have some degree of charisma; and therefore, equating charisma with increased interest in him (versus a musician with a normal amount of charisma) is not really possible without some kind of scientific study. On the other hand, Michael Jackson's fashion doesn't really need a study to prove that his appearance was important to his unique image. Consider what Snoop God was saying above: since we are creating an encyclopedia, information needs to be completely factual and not trivial, and this little tidbit will be hard to fit into that criteria.

I hope this helps explain, because this is somewhat difficult for me to convey. ---Debollweevil (talk) 03:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Could point me to a policy page that makes this point? My argument is that if somebody cares about Jeff Buckley, they are likely to care about his personality as well as his music. In other words, you could say that somebody has a reasonable expectation to find information about Jeff's personality in places where there is a statistically normal chunket of information on him.
An article needs to say why its subject is notable, but not everything in the article has to be arguing that point, right? If not, then we need to remove his ancestry, the fact that he went to Loara, and most of the rest of the article.
No contest that having the section on personality feels atypical for a wikipedia musician biography, but if I'm not mistaken, we're supposed to follow guidelines to make sure that articles are informative and tidy according to some guidelines, not just conforming them to our subjective feelings of what a Wikipedia article is usually like.
All that said, I thank you guys for responding and being so thorough, and I assure you that I'm going to stay cool and be civil even if this doesn't go my way. Speedstyle (talk) 04:20, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Insinuating that I or Snoop God are "conforming guidelines to subjective feelings of what an article is like" and that "we need to remove this and this and this if you don't think this is important" is certainly not the best way to approach this. My attempt was to point out was that you cannot turn someone's idea of "what people today are interested in a person for" into a fact without some kind of scientific research being done on Jeff Buckley fans and their motives. How can you have NPOV on an opinion? To point you to some of the Wikipedia editing guidelines, specifically ones that apply here: WP:ENC, WP:V, WP:CSP, WP:NPOV. I want to help you out, but by your own admission, you are wanting things to "go your way"... There is a guideline about this as well, but I can't remember where at the moment. I do hope that you realize my intentions here are for your benefit... I'm an avid Jeff Buckley fan as well and would love to be able to tell the world how intriguing his personality is, but that is a subjective issue (and is also unverifiable). Some might view his personality in a negative light. Saying that "fans feel this way" or "act this way because of this" falls under the subjective/ unverifiable category as well. If you still don't believe or understand me, you can explain your view to someone at the help desk (WP:HELPDESK... Good luck. ---Debollweevil (talk) 05:23, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
I think I've made my case as best I can at the moment, so if I'm against consensus, you can remove the section and I will have no complaints. You won't hear about this again unless I find a really good source. Speedstyle (talk) 05:36, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

@Speedstyle: About your addition of "A==Legacy=="; I saw you add it two times, and can't figure out why. The section heading for #Legacy (==Legacy==) is already created on the line above (==Legacy==). I'm just pointing this out so you understand why Snoop God, then later I, removed that particular line. I assume you are trying to do something there, perhaps to fit the word "A" before "Legacy" in the section title? ---Debollweevil (talk) 03:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

That must have been an accident I restored while restoring other things. Oops! Speedstyle (talk) 03:56, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


Personality section

I've restored the content from the old "character" section under this title after discovering this. Ratethatvoiceterms (talk) 00:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC) (I'm the former Speedstyle. Lost my pw)

General edits

I'm going to update a few things in Jeff's info box. His only notable instrument listed is a Fender Telecaster. He also played a Gibson Les Paul Custom and Rickenbacker 360/12 regularly. [3] DreamBrother83 (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

His occupations are listed as such: Singer-songwriter, musician. I'm also going to include: guitarist. His guitar playing is overlooked because of the beauty of his voice. The guitar was also his first love so I think that should be included. DreamBrother83 (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Under genres it mentions Jeff as only playing alternative rock and folk. I think this is a very vague and an unfair representation of how eclectic Jeff was. He incorporated elements of jazz, blues, qawwali, classical, ambient, avant-garde into his music as well. I'd like to include those as well. DreamBrother83 (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Instruments Jeff played are listed merely as vocals and guitar. He also played dulcimer, organ, harmonium and tabla. [4] DreamBrother83 (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Few things. Listing guitarist as an occupation is superfluous; not only because it's already listed under instruments, but because being a musician includes this. It's common practice to not include it as an occupation.
Also, all those genres you added are unsourced (and it has gotten to the point of POV pushing). See WP:GENREWARRIOR for more information on genre edits. It needs to be properly sourced.
I told you to discuss your edits - and it's good that you are doing that - but being that your edits has been disputed several times already by different people, it's good manners to discuss them first and then, if a consensus is met, redo them.
Take care. Nymf talk/contr. 01:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Why were the list of guitars and other instruments he played deleted? I gave citations. DreamBrother83 (talk) 22:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

His only notable instrument listed is a Fender Telecaster. He also played a Gibson Les Paul Custom and Rickenbacker 360/12 regularly. [5] DreamBrother83 (talk) 05:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Besides singing and playing guitar Jeff played the following instruments: dulcimer, organ, harmonium and tabla. [6] DreamBrother83 (talk) 05:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Dido's Lament by Henry Purcell

I have just listened to this BBC Radio 4 programme - available to listen for another week and at the end it features Jeff's version of Dido's Lament from the opera Dido and Aeneas by Henry Purcell. It says Jeff performed it at the Meltdown Festival in London in 1995, and that "Composer and cellist Philip Shepperd's musical life was transformed when he was part of the rock singer Jeff Buckley's performance of the piece at the 1995 Meltdown Festival." Did Buckley perform the piece anywhere else? Why did he decide to cover it - it's not exactly his usual material. Performance bootleg on Youtube here. Was it ever officially released/properly recorded? 86.147.162.149 (talk) 14:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

I've responded on your talk page as this page is not for general discussion, but rather for talking about how to improve the article. Try Wikipedia:Help Desk in future. Cheers. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)Join WikiProject Athletics! 16:08, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Guitarist-for-hire

Since this is a GA-ranked article, although I strongly want to be bold and change the beginning sentence of the article referring to Jeff Buckley as a "guitarist-for-hire", which seems ambiguous, I thought I'd leave a question here. What, exactly is that phrase supposed to mean? Unless he was a guitar teacher, or something less common, most guitarists for hire (in my understanding of the term) are either session musicians who work in the studio for other musicians or record producers, or else, they are sidemen, hired in touring or backing bands for various acts. Could someone please clarify what the sentence is intended to mean? I am wondering why it has been left as it is. Thank you. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 20:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

He played guitar in & formed bands, did session work in a friend's studio, & toured once as a sideman in that period. If you think there's a better way to state it succinctly in the lead, be bold!. dissolvetalk 20:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
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