Talk:James Cudworth (engineer)

Ironclads

I have trouble with the sentences "Watkin persuaded John Ramsbottom of the London & North Western Railway (LNWR) to design a number of 2-4-0 passenger engines for the SER, unbeknown to Cudworth." and "When Cudworth found out about the engines, he was furious and resigned.". Now, this is attributed to O.S. Nock; I have a copy, and it does indeed state that (p. 73). However, according to D.L. Bradley (pages 10, 126-127), John Ramsbottom was commissioned to report on the locomotive situation (presented to the Board 7 October 1875), in which he recommended the building of twenty 2-4-0s, and prepared drawings for such locos. Now, it is clear from Bradley that Cudworth assisted Ramsbottom in the preparation of his report, and was also instructed by the Board on 18 November to place orders for the locomotives recommended by Ramsbottom. It's therefore difficult to reconcile this with phrases like "unbeknown to Cudworth" and "he was furious", although Bradley does suggest that the Ironclads were a direct cause of Cudworth's resignation. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Where sources vary like this, we need to include both and state what each says, leaving the reader to make up their mind as to which they believe. Mjroots (talk) 08:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

White Horse of Kent

Steamindex states that Cudworth built the loco in 1845, but the table states it was built in 1844. Is there enough material available to create an article on this locomotive? Mjroots (talk) 08:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Steamindex states

In 1845 he built a 2-2-2 locomotive, The White Horse of Kent, on the uniflow principle (see Stumpf): see Rly Mag, 1907, June, and The Engineer 25 April 1913 p. 450. (Ahrons p. 88)

but you have to be wary of steamindex - like Wikipedia it's a tertiary source at best. It does usually give its sources, so its best to go to those and see what was really written about. I don't have The Railway Magazine for June 1907 (I only have August and December that year), so can't check that; Ahrons however, I can check (and already have done for a different matter, see ref. 10). Ahrons is a reprint of the articles in The Engineer from circa 1925; he died 30 March 1926 so I can not only check but quote verbatim without fear of copyright issues. He states:

Uniflow Locomotive, 1849 ... That a uniflow locomotive worked for about three years on the South-Eastern Railway is not so generally known. A short account of it was given in the Railway Magazine of June, 1907, before the Stumpf locomotive had appeared, and it was also referred to in a letter to The Engineer, April 25th, 1913, page 450. ... The S.E.R. locomotive of the 2-2-2 type was built in 1845 with ordinary 15in. by 18in. cylinders. The latter were replaced in 1849 by a new pair, the inside length of which was about twice the stroke, the latter remaining 18in. as before. The length of the piston was nearly one-half the length of the bore, and in the middle of the cylinder was an exhaust port which extended round half the circumference. When the piston had nearly completed its stroke, the steam was exhausted through the middle port into a pipe which passed round outside the cylinder barrel and entered the smoke-box from the outside on its way to the blast-pipe.
Who was the originator of the idea is not known, but J. I. Cudworth was locomotive superintendent and would be responsible for its application, and also for its removal about three years afterwards. The reason for discarding it was not stated. But in the absence of balance weights for the reciprocating masses, it seems likely that the heavy pistons caused both fore and aft "surging" and excessive swaying.

Bradley (pp. 29-30, 32) says of no. 44 White Horse of Kent that it was a special order from Robert Stephenson of a solitary locomotive for comparison against locos from other makers, it was ordered 28 Dec 1843 for delivery in 6-7 weeks. The loco originally built against the order was shipped March 1844 but lost at sea off Whitby; a replacement was built (ordered 15 Mar 1844) and completed 5 September 1844, which "commenced work for the Joint Committee later the same month". The Joint Committee's locomotives were dispersed on 12 April 1845, when no. 44 became wholly SER property; Bradley then states "Rebuilt to 2-4-0 8/1847, withdrawn 8/1867".

Since Bradley doesn't mention uniflow cylinders, and Ahrons doesn't give the name White Horse of Kent, I think that the sources have become mixed up by steamindex. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

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