Talk:J. Hartwell Harrison

J. Hartwell Harrison has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: May 16, 2020. (Reviewed version).

A fact from J. Hartwell Harrison appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 June 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that J. Hartwell Harrison was the first surgeon to subject a patient to a major operation that was not for their own benefit?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/J. Hartwell Harrison.

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:J. Hartwell Harrison/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: —Ed!^(talk) 01:42, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, this article meets the Quick Fail criteria for Good Article nominations. It suffers from a number of problems, some of which I'll put here to help anyone who would like to help improve the page.

The article is not split into sub-sections and a biography on Harrison is not presented in a chronological way. As best as I can tell, there is one paragraph at the end of the page with a brief summary of Harrison's life, this is neither comprehensive enough nor substantial enough to be considered thorough enough for GA.
The article is not written from a neutral point of view. Most of the information here consists of quotes from other people, who are clearly commending Harrison on his work. Reliable, third party sources documenting the information is essential for an article. See WP:NPOV for more on this.
The inline citations are not formatted correctly, and the reference list does not include enough information on the sources to make them clear. See WP:CITE for how to correct both of these.
His accomplishments need to be written in more detail, as things stand the article very briefly discusses some of his work but does not establish his notability or give a clear picture as to what exactly he did.
You may need to check with an image expert on the legality of our using the image on the page; I'm not sure it is under the correct license. See WP:IMAGES
Please see WP:GACR for more info on what should be added to the article to put it through the GA criteria.

Fail for now. The article has potential to be substantially improved to GA criteria, but at this time, it does not meet the GA standard. Please consider expanding it per the Wikipedia manual of style and consider renominating in the future. —Ed!^(talk) 01:52, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA renom just made. Substantial upgrades have been made with the refs. Copyedit done to improve chronology, though available sources do not include some dates. Other detail also added, though the available biographical info is limited to the few sources which cover the subject. Hoppyh (talk) 21:16, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Use of 'Dr.' in front of names[edit]

We should only use surnames in the article once we've given a person's full name. We don't use 'Dr', see WP:CREDENTIAL. Dougweller (talk) 17:30, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Citation for name[edit]

I hope we can all agree that this is a perfectly good reference for Harrison's full name, right? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 04:20, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Per MOSBIO and usual practice for biographies, we should document all the person's names, but the lede should also mention that he normally didn't use his first given name "John". I'd also like to thank Carmarg4 for his/her excellent work on this article. Please don't get discouraged or upset over issues like this. 67.117.130.143 (talk) 18:02, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Harrison 1) is not an author of the above referenced article, and 2) did not use "John" in his signature within the article. Note as well that the signatures are not originals and have been inserted into the article, per the following statement at the end of the article: "All individuals are correctly identified, and copies of their signatures provided." The name "John" has not been established as his given name. The cited article's research is also grossly flawed - note in the section referring to Dr. Harrison, the statement that Thomas Jefferson is buried on the grounds at the University of Virginia. Anyone who has read any article on Thomas Jefferson or toured Jefferson's home, Monticello, knows that Jefferson is buried there, and not at the University of Virginia. 24.125.211.3 (talk) 22:24, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The cite above doesn't claim that Jefferson was buried at UVa, just that Harrison's widow was told Jefferson was buried at UVa. I'm a bit confused as to what Harrison's signature has to do with his birth name. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 06:26, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No reasonably reliable author would assume, without verifying it, that UVa officials would maintain Jefferson was buried there, much less tell that to the widow of a UVa board member. This absurdity renders the sources for the cite unreliable. As to the signature, the article gives the impression that Harrison signed his name above the typed name of "John Hartwell Harrison" and therefore acknowledged that as his full name. The fact that copies of the signatures were inserted precludes that conclusion. Therefore, yet to be found is a reliable source to indicate Harrison's acknowledged name, or birth name, was anything other than J. Hartwell Harrison. 24.125.211.3 (talk) 14:33, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No luck with Harrison's textbook, Campbell's Urology. 24.125.211.3 (talk) 15:46, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto, in Murray's Nobel Lecture and in Boston Globe obit. 24.125.211.3 (talk) 16:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No John found in any of the Harvard Med School refs. 24.125.211.3 (talk) 19:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have to support the anon here: one utterly ludicrous statement within a source does cast doubt upon the reliability of that source as a whole. DS (talk) 17:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why not just swap out the ref with Pool, J. L. (1970). "The responsibility of the New York Academy of Medicine in the community". Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine. 46 (9): 649–656. PMC 1749754. PMID 5271304.? NW (Talk) 17:52, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks reasonably authoritative. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:55, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Better than the above, though isolated, for sure. 24.125.211.3 (talk) 19:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ref swapped out with above and another one from TIME added. NW (Talk) 06:43, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See added geneaology reference from J. Houston Harrison re John =birth name. Carmarg4 (talk) 16:46, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have cut & pasted the Pool and Time cites to position below from article, since the Houston cite provides a better primary reference for the first name John. Feel free to re-insert if deemed appropriate. Carmarg4 (talk) 16:43, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pool, J. L. (1970). "The responsibility of the New York Academy of Medicine in the community". Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine. 46 (9): 649–656. PMC 1749754. PMID 5271304.; "Medicine: Twin Transplant". Time. January 3, 1955. Retrieved December 31, 2010. {{cite news}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

I added the cites back, because they were clearly about the subject of the article. The genealogy research only mentions his name, and doesn't explicitly connect him to his later work. Granted, it's highly unlikely it's anyone else, but given references that connect the dots for us, we should use them. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:35, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:J. Hartwell Harrison/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 13:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to take this one :) Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 13:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sainsf:Thanks again—just FYI, out of town guests here for a long weekend, so I may be delayed in acting on this. Hoppyh (talk) 16:44, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, just keep me updated. Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 17:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

General checks

No dablink, duplink, copyvio issues
Sourcing and citations: no issues that I can see, just edited one ref parameter (publisher→newspaper). *Is Perspectives a source? Shouldn't it be in Further reading or something?

Used as a cite. Hoppyh (talk) 17:57, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Prose and coverage

Link urologic on first mention in lead (it is linked to urology in para 2) and main text. A couple of links can be inserted here too "human organ removal for transplant to another".

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 18:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrison and the hospital’s urology team conducted its landmark transplant between identical twins in 1954. Won't it be better to put the details about the transplants together in the lead? Presently it is distributed in two paras.

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrison was a descendant of the Harrison family of Virginia. Not sure if this is the right place, just after his death and at the end of the lead. Maybe 2nd para is a better choice.

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 18:18, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From left–Harrison, Merrill, Murray In this caption, a reader who has just started and has cast just a glance on the lead might be confused who Merrill and Murray are

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 19:37, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

bachelor of science may be linked to Bachelor of Science. Also note the case used. Maybe also link MD?

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 19:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Elliott Carr Cutler Professor of Surgery Was this a post of honour named after a renowned person? May be clarify this a bit.

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

and other medical issues A bit vague as "medical" refers to a broad field. May be add a few examples.

Done. No specifics included in sources. Hoppyh (talk) 19:58, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He served as President of the Boston Surgical Society, Vice President of the American Surgical Association do we know for how long? From and to? Similarly from and to might be helpful for for eight years was a member of the Board of Visitors of the University of Virginia and Harrison was also a urologic consultant.

These are items where the sources have thus far failed me. Some luck today with a couple dates from the internet. Hoppyh (talk) 20:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Link kidney transplant and chronic nephritis (main text)

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 20:14, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Murray's Nobel Lecture Shouldn't it be "lecture"?

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 20:13, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Purkinje Medal from Czechoslovakia You mean from an organization in the country? Could be more specific.

I linked the name to the probable related article, but no source for it. Hoppyh (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He held honorary degrees In what?

Nothing in the refs. Hoppyh (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The work would need a ref probably as noted in the previous GA review, though the work itself should ideally be the source shouldn't it? We can insert a citation just to be sure

Done. Hoppyh (talk) 17:57, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderful article, as always :) Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 15:22, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sainsf: All but a few addressed, as noted. Thanks again. Hoppyh (talk) 20:25, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The changes look excellent. Ready for promotion :) Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 03:45, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DYK nom[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that J. Hartwell Harrison was the first surgeon to subject a patient to a major operation that was not for their own benefit? Source: Murray, Joseph E. (1990). "Nobel Lecture: The First Successful Organ Transplants in Man". Nobel Media AB. Retrieved May 9, 2020.

Improved to Good Article status by Hoppyh (talk). Self-nominated at 13:34, 16 May 2020 (UTC).[reply]

New enough and long enough GA. Currently fewer than five DYK credits (three at time of review), so no QPQ required, but you're coming close. Source checks out and is cited in the right places. Good to go. Raymie (t • c) 23:05, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]