Talk:Islamic theological jurisprudence

Muslim theology needs to be merged to this. --Striver 19:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move to Islamic ritual jurisprudence, since this deals primarily with rites.Vice regent 01:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Requested move 28 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Stale. This requested-move discussion has been mooted by a combined move–merge discussion below. (non-admin closure)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  05:29, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

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Islamic theological jurisprudence → Islamic ritual jurisprudence – There is no such thing as Islamic theological jurisprudence. Theology and jurisprudence are two different fields. What this article discusses is fiqh al-‘ibadat, which is normally translated as laws or regulations pertaining to ritual or acts of worship. Some citations: [1], [2], [3], [4] Eperoton (talk) 03:02, 28 July 2016 (UTC) --Relisting.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:47, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

• I don't know... "Islamic ritual jurisprudence" does not seem to be an attested translation, with only 7 hits on Google, 4 of which are related to this discussion. Sometimes I come across "jurisprudence of worship" in parentheses after fiqh al-‘ibadat/‘ibadah, so I prefer either that or a plain transliteration of the original Arabic (Fiqh al-ibadah, which would be consistent with Fiqh). - HyperGaruda (talk) 08:59, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

@HyperGaruda: I also prefer Fiqh al-Ibadat, although if we go by prevalent usage in RS, it would be just Ibadat (which seem to have a jurisprudential connotation in plural, as opposed to Ibadah, which means simply worship). The reason I picked this one is because most other fiqh-related articles have English titles. I took that as a reflection of community consensus, but looking at article histories now, I see that there's been little discussion of their titles. Eperoton (talk) 13:47, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Discussion is continued in the next section.

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move/merge discussion

Discussion is continued from previous section.

Revised Islamic theological jurisprudence → 3 options:

1. move to Fiqh al-ibadat
2. move to Ibadat
3. merge into Ibadah.

There is no such thing as Islamic theological jurisprudence. Theology and jurisprudence are two different fields. What this article discusses is one of two major divisions of fiqh, namely regulations pertaining to ʿibādāt (acts of worship). In its plural form, ibadat refers to an area of jurisprudence, and is distinguished from its singular form Ibadah, which means simply worship. Citations:

1. Brill, EI2, ʿIbādāt: "corresponds, together with its synonym ṭāʿa , in the works of fiḳh , approximately to the ritual of Muslim law (we do not say “cult”, see below), as opposed to the muʿāmalāt"
2. The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World, ʿIbādah: "Works of fiqh commonly treat acts of religious worship (ʿibādāt) in contrast to religious transactions (muʿāmalāt)."
3. The Oxford Dictionary of Islam, Ibadah: "Worship; acts of devotion; service; pl. ibadat. The religious duties of worship incumbent on all Muslims when they come of age and are of sound body and mind. "
4. The Concise Oxford Dictionary of World Religions, ʿIbādāt: "The rules governing worship in Islam."
5. Oxford Dictionary of Islam, Islamic Law: "Furu literature, both legal manuals and collections of cases, discusses rules for rituals (ibadat) and social relations (muamalat)."
6. The Oxford International Encyclopedia of Legal History, Worship in Islamic Law: "In the conventional structure of Islamic legal works, acts of worship (ʿibādāt) represent a category defined in distinction to (and in precedence over) muʿāmalāt, or interpersonal transactions."

Eperoton (talk) 13:25, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

• Merge After some consideration, I think the best option would be to merge this article into Ibadah, for the following reasons:

1. The cited encyclopedias have an article for the singular form or one for the plural form, but not both.
2. There isn't much material to treat specifically under Ibadah, as distinct from content related to fiqh al-'ibadat.
3. WP:PLURAL instructs us to use singular forms in WP titles, with some exceptions. While the irregular plural exception may apply to some Arabic plurals in some cases, in this case the use of the singular is hardly "astonishing".

Eperoton (talk) 13:49, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

• Support merge into ibadah. Any content that is given on that page, or at least the Islamic view on those rituals/worship, is defined by Islamic jurisprudence. To put it simply, ibadah can only be defined in terms of fiqh and so "fiqh al-ibadah" is basically a tautology of "ibadah". --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:07, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
• Support merge have created a section of ibadah for Ibadat. using Eperoton's excellent research. (Checked Hans Whr and he also distinguishes between the singular and plural definitions. BoogaLouie (talk) 01:10, 9 April 2017 (UTC) Agree with Eperoton, "There is no such thing as Islamic theological jurisprudence". Terrible name for the article. BoogaLouie (talk) 01:26, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, BoogaLouie. I haven't forgotten about this, but the text here is so messy that I wanted to combine the merge with a rewrite, which hasn't yet bubbled up my priority list. If someone else would like to do the merge, please go ahead. Eperoton (talk) 15:29, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Just redirected article.

Article redirected

here. New article does not include long entry on hajj or salat as better information is available at the hajj article page. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:36, 9 April 2017 (UTC)