Talk:International Order of the Rainbow for Girls

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Proposing a merger[edit]

Do we really need seperate articles on Rainbow, DeMolay, Job's Daughters, and Triangle? Why not merge them into one article on "Masonic Youth Organizations"? Blueboar 19:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the articles themselves (save Triangle) are pretty long, and the groups are very distinct from one another, each with their own history. Everybody seems to know what Rainbow and DeMolay are, so I think those aren't a good idea to merge. As for the others, I think Triangle needs to go: no offense to the New Yorkers, but it's too local - 13 chapters in only one state is really pushing notability. I've prodded/AfDed other articles that were bigger than that (Sciots, Widows Sons MC, etc), because there's no way to write something that local without it coming across as advertising material, never mind a lack of third party sources. MSJapan 19:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But... it's NEW YORK... of course it's notable... isn't everything about New York notable? You know, "If I can make it there, I can make it anywhere ..." and all that.
OK... seriously, I do see how Triangle might be non-notable (see my comment there). As for the Merge idea, that is all it is. I suppose I am a bit of a "consolidationist" at the moment... seeing a need for consolidations throughout Wikipedia. I just saw another situation here where logically connected articles might be put together into one larger article. No biggie if people disagree. Blueboar 19:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I probably can't contribute to this article (WP:COI). Being a Freemason and all. However, I can definitely say that Job's Daughter's, DeMolay and Rainbow Girls are separate entities within the Masonic Fraternal family and notable as such. Rainbow is unique amongst the Fraternal family in that no association with a mason is necessary to join. Therefore for that reason alone is ought to be separate. These organizations all have their own: electoral bodies, ceremonies, rules and laws. There is considerable information to cram it all into a single article called youth organizations. I think the consolidation tag should be removed. Or it should be added to all the youth organizations. Why is Rainbow Girls being singled out? --Celtic hackr (talk) 07:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, don't worry about that -- large parts of WP:WikiProject Freemasonry are Masons, for obvious reasons. While I agree with you that it shouldn't be combined, "these organizations all have their own...rules and laws" isn't a terribly compelling argument. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

I am going to promote this to Start Class. It definitely isn't just a stub anymore. To move it further the first thing needed are more citations and references. Blueboar 23:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--SarekOfVulcan 19:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Connection to Freemasonry not clear[edit]

There is a infobox and a category - but particularly the intro is lacking any reference to freemasonry at all (it says IORG is a Service club, like Lions Club). Freemasonry is mentioned a few times in the article, but there is no context establishing why it is important to note things such as "Being related to a Master Mason is not a requirement in order to join Rainbow."—Preceding unsigned comment added by ZayZayEM (talk • contribs)

Is this not clear enough? "The order was created in 1922 when the Reverend W. Mark Sexson was asked to make an address before South McAlester Chapter #149, Order of the Eastern Star, in McAlester, Oklahoma. As the Order of DeMolay had come under his close study and observation during his Masonic activities, he decided that another Order for girls, setting forth some of the principles of Freemasonry, would be necessary."--SarekOfVulcan 10:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I saw that. It's a bit vague and confusing. It still doesn't explain why Masonic connections aren't mentioned in the introduction.--ZayZayEM 13:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • shrug* Alright. I added "Masonic" to the lead, but I don't see that that makes anything much clearer.
Actually, relations have to be: Master Mason, Eastern Star member, Connection to another girl, Majority Member, Amaranth (I think), and... Something else. They didn't have us memorize all of them for proficiency. ~ Distorted Fairytales (talk) 06:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Actually, you do not need a relation to join Rainbow girls. You need only be a friend of a Rainbow girl. However, in order to see closed work of IORG, you have to be a member in good standing of IORG, Master Masons, Order of Eastern Star, Order of Amaranth, Order of the White Shrine of Jerusalem, or a Majority girl. Parents, Grandparents, or legal guardians of active or majority Rainbow girls can also see closed work. (Jessie53 (talk) 01:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Jessie53, what is a "closed work?"
As for the business of Rainbow vs. Masons - that seems to be answered on the Rainbow site at http://www.gorainbow.org/qanda/qanda.taf --Marc Kupper|talk 04:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Masonic Fraternities, there is open and closed work. Many times installations, a ceremony where members are given new positions within thier chapter, assembly, or lodge, is open to outside guests. Family members and friends may come share and watch this cermony. Other ceremonies, like initiations, will be only open to members. These ceremonies are "closed." (Jessie53 (talk) 01:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you Jessie. I just realized the article does not mention what initiations and installations are and so have added a note about initiation as I found a reference for that. Unfortunately, www.gorainbow.org does not mention installation at all meaning we'll need to find another source for that. For example http://www.mn-masons.org/page945.aspx is for Minnesota but presumably assemblies worldwide use a similar system. --Marc Kupper|talk 09:22, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More references[edit]

Hey, folks, we really need more independent references for this. Do you have old newspaper clippings that talk about Rainbow, that we might be able to get details from? If so, those are perfectly acceptable, even if offline: just make sure you provide the newspaper and date of publication.

I'm particularly interested in replacing refs to iorg.org - for one, they don't work, and for another, they're primary sources, and we're supposed to report what other people say about the subject, thanks to WP:No original research.

Thanks, all!--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:10, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how to contact you, but I have old newspaper clippings of Rainbow Girls and The Order of Eastern Star dating back to 1961-62. You can reach me at m.waalk@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by M.waalk (talk • contribs) 15:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ref I don't want to add...[edit]

...but it's a Reliable Source. Apparently, as late as the 70s, Supreme Assembly expelled all of Iowa for initiating a mixed-race girl. Anybody have more details on this? http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Hk4NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=T20DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5462,324020&dq=rainbow-girls --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:14, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, more details -- in December, most of the other states voted to drop the "unwritten rule", and Iowa was reinstated. http://newspapers.umsystem.edu/default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?BaseHRef=CMN/1977/01/09&EntityId=Ar02002&Skin=Google&ViewMode=GIF --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:17, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Famous members[edit]

I tagged the Famous members section with {{Failed verification}} because of the people listed in that section only Olympia Snowe and Jill Kinmont are mentioned in the citation.

I was able to verify that Shauna McLean Tompkins is an actress as claimed in the Famous members section[1] and also found a page about her on the IORG web site. The same page also provided a source for Lynn Lary McLean.

We'll need to find sources for the following or to remove them. Sandra Day O'Connor, Lee Meriwether, and Luanne Walton. --Marc Kupper|talk 23:44, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Meriwether is a Past Grand Officer out of California, so might be easiest to confirm from there. I'm not sure if Canada's jurisdictional webpage counts as an appropriate source in this instance, but Luanne Walton is now Canada's Supreme Inspector and Supreme Immortality, and has her Rainbow biography posted there. There's a letter in the Supreme Temple in McAlester confirming Sandra Day O'Connor's membership. Sorchauas (talk) 00:50, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistency[edit]

Regarding:

"... Kimberly Munley, the woman credited for stopping the Fort Hood shooting rampage"

This is not consistent with 2009 Fort Hood shooting:

"The Secretary of the Army Award for Valor was awarded to police officers Kimberly Munley and Mark Todd, for the roles they played in stopping the shooter."

--Mortense (talk) 02:43, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Sexson link[edit]

Regarding this edit: the right person sure, useful to this article not so much. What is the perceived benefit of including that link? Nikkimaria (talk) 11:31, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's information about Sexson on that page that isn't included in this article, and W. Mark Sexson just redirects here. The grave photos are also useful - including them in the article would be undue weight, but they do have some meaning to the members who might come here looking for information about the order. (And it's BRD, not BRRD...) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:15, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They're not information about the order, though, but rather about the person - if there is a perceived need to have more information about Sexson, perhaps he should have his own article. A link is no less undue than a photo. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:19, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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