Talk:Honinbo

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 February 2023. The result of the discussion was keep.

Honinbo[edit]

It is true that this article breaks redirects, but many of them were broken already. Getting this stuff into shape requires several steps. (For example, the previous redirect stated that it is a redirect to the same title with different diacritics. Actually, it was a redirect to "The four Go houses".) (For example, today Iyama Yuta is Honinbo. This state of affairs has absolutely nothing to do with "the four Go houses".) A few years ago all was well. Then someone who doesnt know the Go scene created "the four Go houses", and information was lost. Slowly the correct state of affairs has to be recreated. That is difficult: as soon as I change something someone else reverts. What is needed is the list of heads of the Honinbo house in the Edo period. And the distinction between the House and the Tournament. 2A02:A463:EC02:1:B62E:99FF:FE4C:71C3 (talk) 23:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

While there are arguments that the current redirect does not satisfy all the incoming wikilinks, the "article" you created completely fails Wikipedia standards. It is neither a disambiguation page (see WP:DAB) nor a well-sourced article about an independently notable subject. Repeatedly recreating substantially the same content will only get you blocked from editing. Given the existing articles related to this topic, I doubt that a separate article will ever stand up to scrutiny. That leaves us with targetting this redirect to a different article or creating some sort of dab page. Either way, the redirects that you consider to be broken will need to be targetted to a more appropriate place. I would suggest turning your attention to that and seeing where you end up. It might clarify what is best to be done here. Lithopsian (talk)

I consider the subject notable. Google 本因坊 and today that gives "About 1.130.000 results". Not some obscure subject. (Google Honinbo and find "About 95.000 results". Clearly this Japanese-culture thing is better known in Japan.) Well-sourced: I gave a reference to a paper book in English that I have here on my desk. Of course there are further sources. Might add another one. Concerning the redirects: WP presently has many redirects for Honinbo to Hon'inbō and vice versa, complicating the situation. My version would be the one also chosen in https://senseis.xmp.net/?Honinbo with Honinbo as head-word. That is, I think the head-word should be the English word, not the attempt to transcribe the Japanese. Let me revert once more and add one more reference. 2A02:A463:EC02:1:B62E:99FF:FE4C:71C3 (talk) 14:44, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Side remark: if I go to Hon'inbō_Shūho today, I encounter the link Hon'inbō#Heads_of_the_Hon'inbō_School, a trace of the state of affairs when there really was such a list. 2A02:A463:EC02:1:B62E:99FF:FE4C:71C3 (talk) 15:06, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling[edit]

All English sources (Go books, Go websites, Go journals) that I found spell "Honinbo", not "Hon'inbō". Maybe the use of the latter on Wikipedia is a mistake. The Japanese Wikipedia says about the (Japanese) pronunciation: 本因坊 was originally read as 'honninbo,' but with the spread of Go, it came to be read as 'honinbo.' 2A02:A463:EC02:1:B62E:99FF:FE4C:71C3 (talk) 23:19, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]