Talk:Homa (mythology)

Also Iranian people say that in the past Persians used Homa to choose kings: the person who Homa set on him became king of Persia.

It's far from clear what this means -- can anyone explain? Flapdragon 13:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

♥Hi, all I wanted to say was that my name is Huma, and I know that the meaning of my name is that it’s a bird that lives somewhere in the snows, it has a golden crown, and it is also said that if that bird flies over a man head, then they will become a king. This is all I seem to know about my name. I’d be glad if this is any help to anyone.♥

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Huma, Homa[edit]

Hi there, thanks for creating Huma but an earlier article already is under name Homa. We Shoulde merge them. Amir85 08:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC) See huma (mythology) Also see this image bird of paradise[reply]

I do note that the spellings seem to be about equally used. Anayat Kahn definitely uses the spelling "Huma" for the bird because he even talks about the derivation of the sounds in the article I listed there. Chris 11:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am looking into this matter as hard as I can given the resources I have. It seems that the Persian "homa" is not the same as the "bird of paradise" as it does not appear to be a bird, but a conglomoration of creatures. All I can find on a "homa bird" are references to the Vedas, a bird that falls when hatched, then catches wakes and, fearing the ground and death, starts to fly toward the sun. This does not sound the same as what I have read about the bird of paradise which is more like the phoenix myth. Do you have any good sources? All the references I can find to "the bird of paradise" use the "u" spelling. The creature on Iran Air looks like a griffin as described in the Homa article and not much like a bird. airline logo. Unless you have a good source that they are the same, let's try to get some other feedback on this. I am copying our discussion to the Homa discussion page. Chris 13:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm currently out of decent sources (Unfortunately It's damn hard to find books about Persian mythology in India..) so I can't prove or disprove Huma = Homa, but will search for it. Amir85 18:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Homa and Huma, at least with respect to the mythological entity, are indeed the same thing. The two articles each develop different aspects of the same underlying concept: MP: homa or huma (NP: hom or hum, Avestan: haoma),

Hom/Hum/Haoma, the divinity, one of whose forms is that of a bird, and whose mythology is closely related to that of birds (cf. the story of Zoroaster's birth in the Shahnameh).
Hom/Hum/Haoma, the plant (which the divinity is the essence of) is identified with eternal life (hence presumably the bird of paradise iconography).
Hom/Haoma is also closely associated with the legendary hero-priest-kings Vivanghat, Jamshid, Abtin, Faridun, Thrita, Karshasp and Garshasp. Hom is also the proper name of one of the descendants of Faridun.
Hom/Hum/Haoma, the muse, a source of enlightenment, not only because of the identification with birds - messengers in Zoroastrian tradition - but (presumably) also because fermented hom juice is an entheogen. (note also the cognateness between Perso-Arabic rukh "wine" and roc, the bird).
Hom and Simurgh are very closely related, not only through the identification as birds (which is also evident for other entities such as Bahram and Adar) but also through their powers to heal, their associations of immortality, their mediatory roles between mortals and the divine, earth and sky, etc.
Hom is the vehicle (cf. Denkard VII) of MP: khwarrah (NP: farrah, Avestan: kavaēm kharēno) "divine [royal] glory", the divine mandate that was the foundation of a king's authority. Khwarrah appears as a bird that rests on the shoulder of would-be kings, so indicating Ormuzd's acceptance of that individual as His divine representative on earth.

Given the iconographic similarity to Simurgh, I seriously doubt that the two headed lion-eagle griffon of the Persepolis complex is a representation of Huma/Homa.

-- Fullstop 11:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

==Huma, Homa== Hi guys. Homa/Huma is not the same as Haoma.

I regard Vesta Sarkhosh Curtis [1]as an eminent authority on Persian Myths. According to her book "Persian Myths" (British Museum Press, 1993, ISBN 0-7141-2082-0), Haoma is different from Homa/Huma: "Haoma (Vedic Soma) is the god who gives health and strength" ... "His name is that of a plant with healing potency"..."... when Kavi Haosravah (later Kay Khusrow) defeated the Turanian king Franrasyan (Afrasiyab), he had the physical assistance of Haoma."

The discussion here seems to seek the differentiation between a bird-like creature and a lion/griffin-like creature. According to Curtis (cited above), "... the legendary bird Saena (Pahlavi Senmurv), a great falcon, enjoys particular prominence. She sits on top of the Tree of All Seeds, and by beating her wings causes the seeds to scatter." "...her identification with the later Simurgh is probable but not certain, it is interesting to see how in Firdowsi's Shahnameh a similar legendary bird with supernatural powers plays a prominent role in the story of Zal and his son Rostam." In the caption under a silver plate Curtis says: "The Senmurv (Simurgh) is a combination of bird and dog or lion. late Sasanian..."

The griffin-like capitals at [Persepolis http://www.art-arena.com/persepolis.htm] are definitely lion-like, with eagle-like beaks and a zebra-like mane. In the caption for an image of one of these capitals on page 52 the British Museum catolog of the exhibition "Forgotten Empire, the world of Ancient Persia" (British Museum Press, 2005, John Curtis and Nigel Tallis, Eds. ISBN13: 978-0-7141-1157-5), the caption reads: "Column capital in the form of griffins (locally known as 'homa birds')...". The Iran Air homa emblem [2] closely resembles thses Persepolis homas.

In the same catolog, bracelets from the Oxus treasure are described as "leaping lion-griffins" "The monsters have and eagle's head and wings, a lion's body and forepaws, and a goat's horns and back legs." The objects can be viewed here: [3]

Vesta Curtis also describes other mythical birds in the book (cited above): "Other birds mentioned in the Avesta are Karshiptar, the 'swiftly flying'" "...and Ashozushta, the owl..." "... the bird Chamrush, whose patriotic task is to peck non-Iranians..."

To conclude: The homa is the lion/eagle griffin as depicted in Persepolis capitals. By Sasanian times this may have merged with the Simurgh, but it looks like in earlier times these were separate creatures - one lion-like (homa), and one falcon-like (Simurgh). As for "Huma" vs "Homa," I only see the "Homa" spelling, but given the variety of possible translations (eg different maps list the city of "Rasht" as "Resht") it seems highly likely the are one and the same.

Howard --Howardauthor 14:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]