Talk:Highland Lakes, New Jersey

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Proposed renaming[edit]

For some reason, this page shows the town/cdp as "Highland Lake", however, the town is ACTUALLY called Highland Lakes (plural). Not only do I live here and can attest to this fact, but you can also verify it at the UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE website. [1] Type in "07422" and it will show you.

Please edit the page to show the proper name for the town. Thank you.


The US Census website that you are using is incorrect. The real name of the town is HIGHLAND LAKES (which is pretty evident to anyone who lives there, including me). The problem is that you are using the census bureau for your only point of research, which is erroneous. The United States Postal Service, which HAS a post office in Highland Lakes, refers to it in the plural. It is the "Highland Lakes Post Office". Also, virtually every federal and state document shows that the actual name is Highland Lakes. PLEASE do my town justice and put the REAL name in there, HIGHLAND LAKES. Thank you.

If you need further proof, you can drive to Highland Lakes and see the "Welcome to Highland Lakes" sign.

Proofs:

Highland Lakes Post Office -- http://www.switchboard.com/_1_ODZU1T048NV874__usps.1355/dir/poresults.htm?MEMID=&SD=100&CN=100&CID=1222&Z=07422&A=&T=&S=&Search.x=0&Search.y=0&Search=Search Highland Lakes Country Club -- http://www.hlcc.org/ Highlandlakesnj.com -- http://www.highlandlakesnj.com/

If you really want, I can scan the DEED TO MY HOUSE and show you that it is HIGHLAND LAKES. I'm serious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.107.39.18 (talk) 04:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


First off, this is not a town. This is a census designated place within Vernon Township. This community has no independent government. So, since this article is based on Census data, the Census name was used as the primary name. See [2].
Secondly, the USGS GNIS database shows both "Highland Lakes" and "Highland Lake" as populated places (search excludes the geographical lake). The plural "Lakes" location is shown on the west shore, and the singlar "Lake" location is shown on the east shore. The "Lakes" record has been present in the database since 1979, while the "Lake" location was added in 2000.
So, I think it is likely that the Census screwed it up and the USGS GNIS database then followed the Census in 2000. Any objections to moving this article and all references to "Highland Lakes" ? --ChrisRuvolo (t) 13:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Tons of sources use "Highland Lake" as the name: try Googling it (with HL and NJ in quote), and you'll find that there are over 75,000 websites that refer to it that way. Many of the ones on the top page are plainly referring to the community, not to the lake it's on. Admittedly, the number of references to "Highland Lakes" is well over 300,000, but surely the number of references for "Lake" proves that it's not forgotten. Google Maps concurs with the GNIS source that you're using: if you put in "Highland Lake" "New Jersey", you'll see that it's depicted as a separate area. If this were an error (see Cisco, Nebraska, and try Googling it), you'd find far fewer references. As well, a different post office name occurs in other places: according to the USPS, the village of Midway, Ohio is named Sedalia. There's plenty of weight for Lakes, but (1) as there's also plenty of weight for Lake, and (2) as this is on an entity obviously named Lake, the article should be kept there. Please, as well, don't change the interwiki links: Dutch, Portuguese, and Volapük all have articles entitled Lake, but none of them have articles (or redirects) entitled Lakes. Nyttend (talk) 14:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a resident of Highland Lakes, NJ as well. It's definitely plural and the Census certainly screwed up the name. While it's true that HL is a CDP, it's pretty much thought of as a separate town by a lot of residents since it is geographically separated from the rest of Vernon (probably why it's a CDP in the first place I'm sure -- my voter registration states that Highland Lakes is my municipality instead of Vernon, which is odd). I'd recommend changing the article to Highland Lakes as well. When I think of Highland Lake, I think of the lake itself and not the "town/cdp" around it. --Jesse T., HL resident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.15.156.3 (talk) 09:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nyttend, I think many of the websites keying off of a "highland lake" google search are based on the incorrect census name. "Highland Lakes" is the correct name as far as the residents are concerned and so that should be used. See WP:COMMONNAME. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are we ceratin that Highland Lake and Highland Lakes are the same place in Sussex County? Do we have any evidence that the Census Bureau is in error? GNIS lists two different places in Sussex, one Highland Lake and the other Highland Lakes, both identified as "populated places" (this link may or may not work). Before we pick on one name or the other, we need to figure out what we're debating. To add, Localities search at the New Jersey website lists Highland Lakes in Sussex, with no entry in Suusex for the singular. Alansohn (talk) 19:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure they are referring to the same place. The two GNIS positions are only 1km away from each other (see labels on gmap). --ChrisRuvolo (t) 12:36, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You almost had me. GNIS believes that they are two different places. The Google map you linked to shows two places, one labeled "Highland Lakes" on the northwest part of the lake, and another named "Highland Lake" on the northeast part of the lake. I don't doubt that there is a place named "Highland Lakes", but we don't have any reason (yet) to convince me that "Highland Lake" does not exist or that it is solely a typo on the part of the Census Bureau. Alansohn (talk) 00:40, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at the Census Bureau's mapping engine, their "Highland Lake" includes both the lake actually named Highland Lake and the community of Highland Lakes. The difference in locations on Google Maps is because the Census Bureau uses the center of the area (sometimes resulting in points that are not actually inside the bounds when the shapes are strange) but "Highland Lakes" appears to be at a major intersection in the community. --NE2 02:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Road signs say Highland Lakes too: [3][4] The article is about an unincorporated community that happens to also be a CDP, and the Census Bureau apparently screwed up. --NE2 23:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Census Bureau even called it "Highland Lakes" until 1990: [5] I can find no justification for the change, since Highland Lakes is definitely the common name. --NE2 02:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alan, the GNIS database only added "Highland Lake" in 2000. I'm guessing to satisfy people looking for the mistaken name of the CDP. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 12:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Easy answer to the Highland Lakes CDP in 1990: if there are different names for nearby different areas of this township, as demonstrated by multiple sources, they could have decided that the CDP would have the common name of one instead of the other. Remember what I said above: Cisco, Nebraska (a typo of just one character in the CDP listing) results in a tiny number of Google references, but Highland Lake results in tens of thousands. If we say that Lake and Lakes are both communities in this area, and that Lakes is "dominant" or "better known", it's natural for there to be more references for it. If we say that Lake is an erroneous name for Lakes, it's not natural for those tens of thousands of people to mess up, especially since surely a lot of them would be local and wouldn't be fooled by the Census Bureau's error. Nyttend (talk) 05:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Um... because there's a lake called Highland Lake. That's why there are so many matches. --NE2 19:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am rather agnostic on this issue, and as I said earlier I could go either way. Do you have any theory as to Google Maps showing both as separate places on either side of the eponymous lake? Does Vernon Township or Sussex County have anything on the issue? Has either filed a correction notice with the Census Bureau? I have no doubt that "Highland Lakes" exists; I'm still looking for sourced evidence that "Highland Lake" is not a different place but is a Census Bureau error. Alansohn (talk)
See above: the Census Bureau's "Highland Lake" dot is in the center of the region, while the "Highland Lakes" dot is at a major intersection, possibly the "downtown" area. (For a better example of the center of the region being misleading, see their dot for Aurora, Colorado, which is in an unincorporated area: [6]. --NE2 21:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I just realized that the GNIS entry confirms this: [7] "coordinates are located at the centroid". --NE2 21:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Alan, Google shows both because they both come from the GNIS database. So, after NE2's confirmation that the singular GNIS location comes from the census, I think that we can safely say that all this is because of the census screwup. Any further objections to moving to "Highland Lakes"? --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This would be a possible explanation for the two locations, but we haven't offered evidence that "Highland Lake" does not exist or that it is indeed an error on the part of the Census Bureau. Is there anything available from either Vernon Township or the county on the subject? I will not stand in the way, but I would hope that we can find something more definitive. Alansohn (talk) 18:22, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The township website shows "lakes" as a community and post office here: [8] [9]. This google search shows the township website refers to "highland lakes" 212 times: [10]. "highland lake" appears only 3 times, all in references to the body of water: [11]. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the Vernon Township website does not reference it as a place, that would seem to be the last nail in the coffin for "Highland Lake". I would support a redirect. Alansohn (talk) 05:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming to Highland Lake again..[edit]

I know this has been discussed, but the latest data for this place shown that its name is Highland Lake and NOT Highland Lakes. --Vrysxy! (talk) 19:17, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- Where are you seeing this? This is incorrect. I live here and it is Highland Lakes (plural). There is literally NOTHING here to indicate it is Highland Lake on any sign (NJ DOT and otherwise), the post office, any address of ANY Business in the CDP, anything. The US Census Bureau accidentally (through typo) called the CDP Highland Lake in 2000. I wrote a letter to them in 2009 requesting them to fix it. I received a response back stating I was correct and they had made a mistake. The correct name is Highland Lakes. I am getting sick and tired of correcting this data on Wikipedia, because it propagating wholly and factually incorrect information throughout the internet, and making it harder for the people who live here and navigate here to figure out what the h*ll is going on.

Any reference to Highland Lake on a map should ONLY be to the largest lake by that name within the CDP's borders. The CDP is Highland Lakes.

That is final, that is correct, and it is not that hard to do your due diligence to realize this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.206.48.221 (talk) 07:12, 10 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The USPS calls it "Highland Lakes", but the United States Census Bureau has used "Highland Lake" in both 2000 and 2010. Of course this could be a mere typo, but it's odd that no one in the Vernon Township hierarchy was able to get this corrected. Even if this is a mere typo, the fact that there is a discrepancy in how the name is listed should be recognized. The article title remains "Highland Lakes", but a parenthetical reference has been included to show that the Census Bureau has used "Highland Lake" for the past few decadal censuses. Alansohn (talk) 03:25, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

-- I am a resident of Highland Lakes. I wrote to the US Census Bureau to have it corrected and received a letter back from Timothy Trainor, their Chief Geologist, stating that Highland Lake is in fact incorrect and that it was to be changed for the 2010 Census to reflect the correct name, Highland Lakes. I have taken a digital photo of the letter from the US Census Bureau's CHIEF GEOLOGIST to back up this claim. If the word of the man in charge of the Census's geological data isn't enough for you, nothing is. I have decided to leave my name and address in the letter for veracity's sake. Please stop changing this article to "Highland Lake" now. I have an additional letter out to the Census asking them why the promised changes weren't implemented, at least on their website. Here is the letter: http://i.imgur.com/t4JN07B.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.243.57 (talk) 06:15, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Again, error or not, the United States Census Bureau has used the singular "Highland Lake" for the past three censuses -- in 1990, 2000 and 2010 -- and reliable and verifiable sources have been provided to show that. The letter is interesting, but I'm still surprised that there is no mention on the Vernon Township website of the error or in any newspaper article I can find. I agree that the title should remain "Highland Lakes", but that the indication that it has been called "Highland Lake" by the United States Census Bureau should remain in the lead. Alansohn (talk) 01:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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