Talk:Herat (1793–1863)

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Article name change[edit]

Why not change the article name to Emirate or Principality of Herat? For wikipedia consistency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danial Bass (talk • contribs) 12:41, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Completely agree. I don't know how that would work though considering the principality of herat page already exists as a redirect to this page. Danial Bass, would you be able to do it for me? Kailanmapper (talk) 16:55, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Herat Principality languages[edit]

The languages of Herat principality here are foremost Pashto, at the very least. Afghan Empires, dyansties, and their principalities had Pashto as their official language. Even here. Therefore, it should always be indicated as such.

The people of Herat were primarily Persian speaking, but the principality created by by the Pashtuns/Afghans had Pashto as their official language. Theres a very distinct difference here. It should be understood clearly. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 19:40, 25 May 2022 (UTC) Just because Pashtuns founded the principality doesn't mean they spoke Pashto. The Durranis were extremely Persianized, and the rulers of Afghanistan used Persian in all matters. Here's a quote from William Darlrymple's book "Return of a King": "Like the Qizilbash, his own Sadozai dynasty were Persian-speaking and culturally Persianised and Timur Shah looked to his Timurid predecessors– ‘the Oriental Medici’ as Robert Byron dubbed them – for his cultural models."There is a clear difference between ethnicity and language-for example look at this map of ethnic groups in Afghanistan: [1]. Now look at a linguistic map of Afghanistan- [2] Your argument doesn't hold up and isn't based on any reliable sources.Kailanmapper (talk) 13:06, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Durranis had Pashto as their official language as well. The problem with the Pan Iranian narrative always on Wikipedia is that they always attempt to push the idea that everyone was “Persianized”. That is not true. The Pashtuns also established their language everywhere they conquered in order to establish Afghan dominance in the new areas more visibly. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 13:20, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reliable source for such bold claims?Kailanmapper (talk) 13:26, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have sources that Pashto wasnt the official language of the Herat principality? And no source you have provided indicates either that Persian was the official or primary language of Herat principiality. I ask that you stop POV pushing pan iranist philosophies onto other articles. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 03:44, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We are not POV pushing, we provided multiple sources to support this claim.

Your claim of that all “pashto dynasties tried to enforce pashtun dominance” makes little sense, the Durranis used Persian in court and many other functions of government in multiple sources;

5] Green, Nile (2019). "The Rise of New Imperial and National Languages (ca. 1800 – ca. 1930)". In Green, Nile (ed.). The Persianate World: The Frontiers of a Eurasian Lingua Franca. University of California Press. p. 42. ISBN 978-0520972100. “Despite Ahmad Shah Durrani's flirtations with founding a Pashto-based bureaucracy, when the capital moved from Qandahar to Kabul in 1772, Durrani and post-Durrani Afghanistan retained Persian as its chancery and chief court language.” Noorullah21 (talk) 08:04, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

and again, heres with Iranica which you overlooked or claimed as “Pan Iranian”

[3] Noorullah21 (talk) 08:06, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Number one, this shows that you did not get yourself involved with this discussion when you launched the complaint. This will be obvious.

Number 2, read that source. What does it say? Does that source have anything to do with Herat?? That source mentions Qandahar and Kabul, it has nothing to do with the Herat principality. You peddling sources that has nothing to do with Herat will not go unchecked. WatanWatan2020 (talk) 09:25, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What?

“ Herat was a city of major strategic importance, with fertile hinterlands, an abundant water-supply, and secure defenses. Herat’s population, estimated at about 100,000, consisted mostly of Persian-speakers from various Afghan ethnic groups, including Hazāras and Pashtuns, as well as Hindus and a sizable Jewish minority.” Noorullah21 (talk) 09:31, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]