Talk:Hawzen in the Tigray War

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This article was nominated for deletion on 9 November 2021. The result of the discussion was Procedural keep.

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This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

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Text has been copied to or from this article; see the list below. The source pages now serve to provide attribution for the content in the destination pages and must not be deleted as long as the copies exist. For attribution and to access older versions of the copied text, please see the history links below.

Copied pages:
Copied Early December 2020 Hawzen massacre (history) → November 2020 Hawzen massacre Copied Late December 2020 Hawzen massacre (history) → November 2020 Hawzen massacre Copied January 2021 Hawzen massacre (history) → November 2020 Hawzen massacre Copied February 2021 Hawzen massacre (history) → November 2020 Hawzen massacre

Merge and rename[edit]

The proposal is to merge the four other articles into this one (November 2020 Hawzen massacre), with a proposed starting text being this version of 19:15, 20 November 2021 and renaming it to Hawzen in the Tigray War. The rename will technically start in the section below. It will probably be simpler to put most arguments and oppose/support in the rename section below, since the merge and rename only make sense if done together. Boud (talk) 19:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 November 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved, with the understanding that the four other articles will be merged into this one. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:52, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November 2020 Hawzen massacre → Hawzen in the Tigray War – There were five documented massacres, looting of the hospital by the EDF, and a rape camp set up by the ENDF; there are easily enough reliable sources for these events co-located in this small town in this war. There is a multiple merge proposal at Talk:November 2020 Hawzen massacre#Merge and rename. I've been bold and started the merge, since my guess is that it's likely to achieve consensus. See this version of 19:15, 20 November 2021 for a proposed starting point for the merged/renamed article. Boud (talk) 19:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC) Boud (talk) 19:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Arguments above - I'm the proposer. Boud (talk) 20:14, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. There may be material for one article here, but not for five parallel articles. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 19:07, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Give it a shot. Platonk (talk) 03:40, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support - The same approach could be valid for other similar locations with repeated massacres and other war-related events. Rastakwere (talk) 07:23, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible items to merge into this article[edit]

Would showing a photo of "ordinary life" in Hawzen be justified? I guess a "background" section to Hawzen might justify one of more of these pre-war photos, that were in the four merged articles for the individual massacres. The photos are:

caption todo
caption todo
caption todo
caption todo

Please restore one (or more) of these if consensus seems likely. Boud (talk) 23:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I like photos 2, 3 & 4 because they show buildings and community. I wouldn't put them in the Background section because that would place them too high in a war-topic article and would give the wrong impression. Also the background content doesn't support "happy images". Perhaps use in a gallery lower down the article, but only if it could be used to show a counterpoint or contrast of Hawzen before and after the conflict. I think if you could find more photos of 'after' it would be a better counterpoint. If you do a counterpoint gallery, I would either ditch the "Surroundings of Hawzen" image, or place it in the gallery. Right now, it's just decorating the article but doesn't illustrate any content nor contribute much to the topic. Platonk (talk) 23:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Needs checking for reliable sources[edit]

This article needs a thorough going-over. The five previous articles that were merged here were based on the self-published "Atlas" document on ResearchGate. There's no question that war crimes against civilians happened in Hawzen, but the sources mostly indicate occupation, rape camps, and the destruction of the hospital. There's one AP News article about 70 people killed. The rest of the alleged massacres (death counts, dates, etc.) in the section "Military events" remains unsourced. @Boud: do you think you could give this a look-over since you're probably the editor most familiar with this topic? Platonk (talk) 00:01, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]