Talk:Hawthorne Heights/Archive 1

Very Good Emo Band

For the last time, listen to real emotive hardcore bands like Envy, Pageninetynine, After School Knife Fight, and then try and tell me this crap piece of a band is emotive hardcInsert non-formatted text hereore.

just because there are more emo bands doesn't mean this band isn't emo. seriously, singing about blacking out one's eyes, and killing oneself qualifies on my defintion for emo. Itachi1452 02:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

wrong! h.h. is a very EMO band, if you think other wize... listen to "ohio is for lovers" at youtube tell me that is not EMO...--69.131.140.207 (talk) 21:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)Robbie Suicidesforkim 09:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me

Excuse me, but who messed up the page by adding this whole information into a table cell? I'm changing that now cause that's not supposed to be there. thank you. Erikkuiv 22:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

There was an issue with the editing I'm not sure how to fix it can someone please try to edit that thank you. Erikkuiv 22:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

without putting down the band, they are actually just a pop rock band. They do not belong in the emo category. alot of bands have been mislabled since Thursday got big. They just happen to be power pop band that got big through someones clever marketing ploy.

A Great Band

H.H. is a great band, right now they´re on the Never Sleep Again Tour with Aiden, Bayside and Silverstein. Why they don´t come to Monterrey, Mexico.

Well you must buy their album, it has an amazing sound!!

From Mexico: El Charro

Who the hell screwed up the page.

... My god, emo's make me want to puke.

Hawthorne heights is one of the best bands!!!!I bought there shirt yesterday at hot topic...

---

I'm a Dayton native and a friend told me that they were named so because of an old band member, Nick Hawthorne, who attended Alter High School in Kettering, does anyone know if there is any truth to this, or where this story might have come about?

---

No, it's not true. Check the Trivia section of the page. This was spoken words of one of the members of the band.

W.T.F. thats....not...kool...Emos....make...u...puke? wut...do...u...got...against....emos....huh? well....Hawthorne...H....is..an...awesome...band....love....their...lyrics.......bomb....diggity!!!!!!!!!!!!

sincerly once again emo chick:(

that is really mean emos make you want to puke !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!emo kids are cool well any way i got to go to the bigest fall out boy show on there tour and they were a oping band and another band signal home (under victory recordes)was making a music vidio and they shot it by my house and jt was there i got my pic with him he is a really nice guy with a big heat so yea hawthorne heights are the coolist on eart besides a million other bands but there in my top fav

               with lots of lov for hawthorne heights *kalie*

who the hell do u think u r...emos make u puke??..ur gona make a lot of enemies actin like dat!!!

No pedals?

Can any musicians explain to me how having three guitarists means they don't have to use pedals? I understand the "no pauses" part, but I think the part about not using pedals was probably written by someone who doesn't quite understand guitar technique. I could be wrong.4.225.95.12 06:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I changed it. I think what they were talking about was one guitar would only play the distorted part, a second only play the clean parts, and a third more of an overdrive sound, therefore eliminating the need for one guitar to switch effects using a pedal. But to me this is insignificant compared to the musical advantages to a third guitarist. I still question the "unusualness" of this; Iron Maiden, Lynard Skynard, The Eagles, Pearl Jam, Sonic Youth, Radiohead, The Ataris, and Zwan are a few bands with three guitar players. And any band that wants more guitarists can just hire more touring musicians. Hoof Hearted 21:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Modified a bit more. I'm not a musician but I think HH is different than some of the bands you've mentioned, in that all 3 guitarists play distinct and easily identifiable parts. I suppose this is subjective, involving musical styles, but I think it's different than having a 3rd just for live shows, or having the 3rd play essentially a 2nd rhythm part, which may be slightly different but not musically significant. It's also different than having the vocalist occasionally pick up a guitar; I would consider Eddie Vedder and Thom Yorke vocalists rather than guitarists. Simishag 06:25, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Genre....Emo?

I think the genre should be changed from Rock to Emo. I didn't change it because many bands (and fans) consider a slap in the face to be called emo, even though many fans aren't using it in a derogatory way anymore, so I want to know what your stance on it is.----SOAD_ROCKS

truely, they are emo. people who think thats so bad should shove it, because its true, and its not a bad thing. and whats with this "pussy-core" label on the site, some one explain what the hell that is?!?~emokid~

That's called vandalism. I had just corrected it a moment ago. Any time you see vandalism, feel free to get rid of it, and make all our lives a little easier.

Hawthorne Heights isn't emo. I like emo and I'm not saying its bad for Hawthorne Heights to be emo, but Hawthorne Heights is not Emotively Charged Hardcore Punk.

I'm not changing anything, but i think they are somewhere between pop- punk and emo-core. The pop- punk part would make sense because one of their influences is Green Day. On thier myspace here's what their genre says: Rock/ Post Hardcore/ Pop Punk. --Greendayrox 15:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Hawthorne H...... is.. an.. emo... band.. anyone.... who.. is ..really... a fan ..and ...listens ...to ...their... music should know that. Emo ...bands... are... called.. Emo ...bands... because.. of ..the ..music ..lyrics,..and ..have ..YOU listened... to ...Hawthorne heights??? -sincerly Emo chick :(

Emtotivley charged hardcore punk.You come on talking about emo and you haven't even read the emo page. if yo are going to talk about it at least know what it means first.

Oh my god this is one of the most emoist bands!.... ppl call me emo just cause i listen to them..and llisten to there lyrics

Emo chick, you seriously need to check your labels. Not saying that labeling is a smart thing. Hawthorne Heights may have emotional lyrics, but that doesn't make emo. Emo is emotively charged hardcore punk or something close to that. Check out Rites Of Spring. That's emo. They, argubly, invented the genre.

Couldn't Hawthorne Heights be labled as Post-Hardcore?--HurricaneRo 01:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

they're whatever you want them to be. Greendayrox 22:05, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

How can any of you argue that Hawthorne heights are not emo? Theyre one of the most emo bands out there at the moment. 213.78.252.146 19:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View?

The "Musical Styles" section seems to be written from a biased POV..and not very accurately either. Describing them as "distinct", and special because of their arrangement isn't exactly neutral - especially since their line-up isn't that amazingly "distinct". Not to say their line up shouldn't be noted, but couldn't it have been worded in a more factual context? Yes? No? Fish? Shatha 19:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I rewrote that section a while back. Musical style is certainly subjective, although I don't think this is biased as such. I don't especially like "distinct" but I think the rest of it is okay. The musical arrangement is not common and should be mentioned, along with a short blurb that mentions how & why the arrangement is relevant. Feel free to make improvements to the wording. Simishag 22:49, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

One guy finally just said "The Hell with it" and deleted the whole section. Problem solved! Underwater 23:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

But now the section is back, and very NPOV. Very very NPOV. I'm only familiar with one song from the band, so I'm not qualified to write about their "musical styles", but I just thought I'd point out that what is written there now is certainly not relevant, fair, neutral, informative, etc. I agree that it should probably just be deleted entirely

Hawthorne Heights Is Emo Music,listen to it sometime,the lyrics say emo all over it.. Go to "Emo" Kids site.. For tehre fav bands it says hawthorne heights under the emo section!

theyre certainly an emo kid band, but not emo. emo doesnt really have much to do with the lyrics, every band has emotional lyrics. people these days seem to misinterpret emo as whiny mtv pop rock, which hawthorne heights definatelty is, but thats not what emo is.

NPOV interpretation

"Hawthorne Heights isn't trying to promote the message that suicide is good, they think suicide is a very horrible act for someone to perform. They actually are just using metaphors."

This sounds a like someone trying to justify their favorite band. Perhaps it's true, but it shouldn't be said like this, and ciation should be provided. -Caligari_87

what....????? suicide......is....a....good.....thing....!!!!!!!

emo chick:(

---

Emo Chick. You're a dumbass. Please shut up. For forever. You don't deserve to use a keyboard to type letters that may or may not string words together in a sentence that could possibly make coherent, if stupid, sense.

Emo is stupid. This band is stupid. Uniquity is stupid. Especially since, I'm pretty sure, that it isn't a word. Stop being pussies and just tell it like it is ; Hawthorne Heights is a cloned band with a cloned genre with a cloned sound with a cloned style that spreads the same cloned message. "I'm dark, I'm hurt, and I'm the only one who feels like this. Woe is me." Meatspinclock 02:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

hey...dude..asshole..i agree with emo chick abd if ur goin 2 insult and abuse her ur goin 2 hev me after u!!!

hey..thanks..dude! w.t.f..asshole.. who do u effin..think..u..r..2...kall...me...a..dumbass...!! emo chick:(

Can we get a copy of the contract?

Plus, there isn't proof on this page that Victory is demanding 2 new CDs.....

ok ok

let's get one thing stright

1.HAWTHORNE HEIGHT ROX MY FUCKING SOX OFF!!!!

2.hawthorne heights is not trying to promte people killing them selfs,(where do you get that anyways)

3. emo kids fucking rock!!!(NOT MORE THEN HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS?

if you have a promblem with emo chick or any of the hawthorne heights fans then you have to go though me !!!!!...and b sides ur probly some gay ass bio person(no offene to other people only to this person) i bet ur also some one is jelous of hawthorne heights . and don't EVER talk about hawthorne heights like that agien...or else i will get them to screw ur face up ...i know them personly (and after they r done i will to) ~these scars only remiand me of you~ or black death rose

Do you realize how many fucking mispellings were in that? Before you go off talking about how Hawthorne Heights "rox your sox off" learn to fucking spell, otherwise you won't be taken seriously. Plus, I doubt you or "emo chick" have any idea what real emo is, other than what MTV has told you. The problem that I have with Hawthorne Heights is that most of their fans are either "emo" wannabees or 11 year old teeny boppers who don't know shit about music. I also have a problem with people who take emo way too far and to the point where their whole personality revolves around it. It makes me sick when I see upper-class white kids who think their life is terrible. 70.125.40.113 21:30, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

ps i bet u wont write back!!!!

well I don't have a problem with the band I don't like the emo labels hell I don't like a lot of the labels...but yeah I don't have a problem with it I don't discriminate. I just don't like the values that emo kids share. That's all lol. Um... let's not be unruly on a Wikipedia talk page, OK? Erikkuiv

Err. Omg; Hawthorne Heights Is effin Emo Or Emocore Music.God, and emo kids are not the olny type of people that listen to Hawthorne Heights. God I listen to Hawthorne Heights there my favorite band, and im not emo.So think beofore act. God common sence;.! And haha. Omfg your little comment there * I bet u wont write back. Oh hell, are u trying to make him scared of u.? Do u think that sounds threatning to a emo kidd,just beauce they dont fite back! Well give it the Eff up! Honestly Give it up.

Beaches? In Southern Ohio?!

"Hawthorne Heights is a post-hardcore/pop-punk band that formed on the beaches of Dayton, Ohio."

Hmmm....something just dosen't seem right about this line. Could it be the fact that, while i live only 20 minutes away from Dayton, OH, i have never seen a single beach in this city? I dont get it.

It's called vandalism. SOADLuver 19:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Emo? You're kidding...

I know, I know. Do something about it. Before I take initiative, I think we should all agree on one genre. Emochick, don't bother. You know nothing about emo. Emo is Emotive or Emotionally charged hardcore punk rock. This is definitely not punk rock. I was thinking of something along the lines of hardcore. Not hardcore punk, just hardcore.

We all have certain perspectives on music's genre. I consider HH as emo, and you don't. Lots of people may differ, some may even say it's pop or whatever. I suggest we completely remove genres from Wikipedia articles as it is merely a perspevtival term, and not a fact. Also, I think very few artists stick to one genre. Adding genres to articles will only cause confusion and conflict due to everyone's different perception of it. --Adriaan90 07:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Hawthorne Heights is Hardcore???? thats insane...Have u heard there new cd if only u were lonely??? definitley not hardcore I say they are emo cuz i dont know what else they would fit into and there lyrics fit emo--HurricaneRo 01:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

dude, their first album was kinda slightly post-hardcore. it just takes that to classify them. plus, they are emo. i think these lines qualify them as emo..."so cut my wrist and black my eyes, to help me fall asleep or die" seriously, cutting one's wrist?!! killing oneself?!! that's emo for sure. Itachi1452 02:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Like, WTF?

What? who is "emochick", why does she need to die, why are placing this on the page for Hawthorne Heights and who put this? can we find who this is and block them?

Oh yeah, are you sure that "Ohio Is For Lovers" was a top 40 hit, or "Saying Sorry"? I heard "Saying Sorry" on Top 40 radio, but it may have hit anywhere between #50 and #41. Billboard.com doesn't help me. Doc Strange -- 11:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, okaythen! "emochick" is a "posuer" emo fan. Those few people who jump the bandwagon to the next craze. Doc Strange -- 11:12, 2 November 2006 (utc)

"Feud" with Ne-Yo

There's a section that was called "feud with Ne-Yo." That was misleadingly titled, so I changed it to "Incident with Ne-Yo." The old title implies that there was an actual feud between the band themselves and Ne-Yo, when it was actually the label that was provoking Ne-Yo and pretending to speak for the band.

And while I was at it, I also edited the next section, "Feud with Victory Records," to include a reference to the Ne-Yo incident. The band explicitly mentions the Ne-Yo incident as an example of the letters that Victory wrote in the band's name.

-- Drumwolf, 11/5/2006, 7:12pm

Vandalism

Not surprisingly this page is starting to get vandalised...

As taken today: "Most fans are 13 year old emo girls whom are posers and who want to fit in. They are one the worst bands ever."

I request partial restriction on the page.IAngelofFuryI 00:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

You can do that? Gosh this emochick/arguing/vandalising crap needs to end...didn't know you could do this though.72.144.178.171 21:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

ya, you can. a lot of other pages have been getting that now too. a lot of annoying vandalism has been occuring now, so if someone knows how, can they get this page restricted? that might help the vandalism go down. Greendayrox 22:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

that has helped a little, but people still are vandalizing. if there's anything else anyone knows to do about this, please post it here. Greendayrox 04:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

We definitley need a picture for this article--HurricaneRo 01:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I think we also need to add Metal/ Post Hardcore/ Grindcore and Thrash tags to their genre list

As they pretty much delve into this territory as well. And don't come into this suggestion with stupid genre purism. If we can't define bands we like as the genres we want them to be, then why the hell should genres exist in the first place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.214.52.186 (talk) 03:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC) i agree. who cares what their labelled? i think people just are emophobic. they wont agree that bands ARE EMO... and if you dont like it.. DONT LISTEN TO IT!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.217.227.129 (talk) 03:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

omg ur so missing the point ._. there is a genre called emo, and there are emobands omg, but they have nothing to do with either mtv, hawthorne heights, mcr or anything like that. emo was a subgenre of hardcore that emerged during the 80's. then during the mid 90's a subgenre of emo called screamo emergerd, which incorporated more rough and aggressive grindcore elements. however there are just a few bands that still play the old "original" type of emo, the only kind of emo that still lives to this present day is screamo, and screamo is not just any kind of music that has screaming in it, but a DiY- hardcore genre with much agrressiveness, with bands such as Love Lost But Not Forgotten, Dear Diary I Seem To Be Dead and Am I Dead Yet! you should check some of those bands out before calling a mtv rock band screamo ever again ._. furthermore i do listen to emo, and screamo, but labeling mainstream rock as emo has given real emo and screamo a bad and unjust name —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.97.53 (talk) 15:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

NEITHER EMO NOR SCREAMO!!

Hawthorne Height is not, has never been, and will probably never be an emo/screamo-band. The reason? Just use your common sense guys, if you serioulsy consider them emo, you've evidently never listen to any emo music. Emo is, and will always be Emotional Hardcore, with the subgenre Screamo (where more emphazis is put in the screaming, although emo usually has a lot of screaming too).

Try to compare Hawthorne Heights to bands such as A Fine Boat, That Coffin!, Usurp Synapse or Circle Takes The Square and you will notice that these guys (who play screamo) and Hawthorne Heights (who play pop rock) aren't even in the same league.

If you still believe that Hawthorne Heights is what the emotional branch of hardcore music has turned into then you've never heard the origins of the genre either, or you just lack any sense of musical comprehension.

Then you will probably say something like "Oh, but we have sources!", yeah you probably do have sources, but they aren't liable at all. I mean come on! Rolling Stones magazine... they are among the guys who tried to misuse the emo-name in the first place, by labeling pop rock bands with it, so that they would profit from "something new that the kids will like", emo isn't "something new that the kids will like", emo is hardcore punk, with emotional touch and lyrics.

See Archive 1. Nobody pays attention to these diatribes. Log in and/or write a book, and we'll start taking this kind of emo purism seriously. Chubbles 13:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you partially, though these people have some screaming in their music and references to cutting in the popular song, Ohio is for Lovers (which is generally seen as emo). I can see how you can testify that they are not emo or screamo, though I wouldn't exactly call them pop rock, I'd call them punk rock at the most or maybe just rock. That's just my opinion. --71.211.71.212 04:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean pop punk can be mislabeled as emo I myself have labelled Amber pacific, the starting line, RJA and hawthorne heights are emo but they are pop punk definately not pop rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt 14 (talk • contribs) 20:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

This article needs to be rewritten. who the fuck gave a five year old an internet connection?

try reading some book before putting pen to paper.

"try reading some book before putting pen to paper."

Case in point.LafinJack 13:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

R.I.P Casey it needs to be changed that Casey died that is important! Hawthorne Heights said Casey is still a member of the band! change it back!

Citation

"The following September a judge ruled the band was still contractually obligated to Victory.[5]"

Maybe I'm missing something, but the source doesn't seem to back up the claim. 68.7.201.42 06:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, since the court is still out regarding the fraud and abuse charges it is not safe to say that HH is still obligated. If fraud or abuse is found the contract will most likely be voided because the agreed upon royalties will not have been paid.Nickvsshark 10:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Someone from OTRS already removed that statement. It's been replaced with better-sourced information. Chubbles 15:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

external links

just wanted to let anyone wondering know that i'm the one who put the links for the fansites on xanga and piczo on there. these are both my sites, so that's why they might look sort of the same. Greendayrox 22:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

i was wondering why the link to my HH fan site on xanga got deleted? already left a comment to the person who did that, but someone might be able to tell me on here. Greendayrox 03:09, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Links were removed per WP:EXT and WP:COI. Chubbles 07:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

You Guys are stupider than you look

the Modern Rock tracks and Hot Modern Rock Tracks are the same thing. i know what it says on AMG for Saying Sorry, but AMG sucks. well, i guess thats what id expect form the stupid fans of a stupid band. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.188.208 (talk) 01:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

You think we're stupid? Atleast we can type right... unlike you... Please leave us fans and HH alone. Greendayrox 17:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Chart positions

This has been the subject of some consternation beforehand; it's good that the Billboard.com chart history link has been linked to, but it conflicts with the information on Allmusic's site, which is also taken from Billboard. Since they're both coming from the same source, I'm not sure how to handle that...does Billboard publish these in print? I could try and look up the issue in which this appeared... Chubbles 20:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Update: I have access to back issues of Billboard on microfilm. I can look this up; it would help if anyone knew approximately what time of year the song hit the charts. Chubbles 21:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Update on update: I checked the microfilms, and Allmusic's designations are incorrect - the song did go to #7 on the Modern rock chart. Looks like I've been wrong all along. Fix coming in a sec - thanks for bringing a reference to light. Chubbles 22:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

NOT EMO.

Emo died in the 90s Hawthrone is a POP ROCK band. Wiki should atleast be accurate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.44.49.189 (talk) 04:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

NO, its POP PUNK not POP ROCK - however I'd like to know if cut my throat, spill my blood, cut my throat, spill my blood was satrical or not.

how do you noe the lyrics if you dont like them

Agreed. I have pretty much had to stop all my friends from coming to wiki for music info for just this reason. Manupod 2007 (UTC)

dude, HH is about as emo as you get. come on with lyrics like "cut my wrist and black my eyes" and album titles like "the silence and black and white" and "if only you were lonley". HH is the only REAL emo band anymore so its not really a bad thing. get over it.

I like Emo music. Hawthorne Heights is nowhere close to Emo/Screamo. Emo describes bands like Moss Icon, Gray Matter, Mineral, The Appleseed Cast, Rites of Spring, Sunny Day Real Estate, and Jawbreaker. If you don't know of those bands you have no business calling anything emo. Read Fourfa to learn what emo is. Also, "Cut my wrist and black my eyes" was satirical. Manupod 22:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, we all have our opinions, and you're entitled to yours. But please don't go deleting genre designations when they're backed up with cited sources. Thanks.

Chubbles 22:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Amazing

I'm glad a few people want to share their views on the genre of this band while the rest of the fans who dont give a damn about your ridiculous conforming opinions will call them eMo. you guyts are dumb as fuck hawthorne heights is so EMO!!! slit my wrists and black my eyes i mean seriously they aRE as pussy aS IT GETS MAN....AND JUST TO LET ALL YOU LITTLE FAGGETS KNOW THAT DUDE WHO DIED KILLED HIMSELF BECAUSE HE WAS SUCKING THE LEAD SINGERS DICK OFF....AND HIS STOMACH HAD TO BE PUMPED FROM ALL THE SEMAN HE INJESTED,,,,,HE LIVED THROUGH THIS BUT WORD GOT OUT SO HE THEN KILLED HIMSELF ON HIS TOUR BUS BECAUSE HE REALIZED HOW GAY HE WAS AND COULD NEVER CHANGE..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirkastheysay (talk • contribs) 04:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Primary genre is post-hardcore

I'm not gonna get into the debate over whether or not Hawthorne Heights are emo, because there are enough reliable sources who cite them as such that the genre warrants inclusion in the genre list. However, I don't think they should be described as an emo band in the opening paragraph, as they are first and foremost a post-hardcore band. Having them labelled as emo in the opening paragraph could be very misleading towards those who don't consider them emo, so I'm going to change this. James25402 10:06, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Enough with the Emo war

It's called the Third Wave Of Emo Music. See Emo (music) for more info, and stop your bitching.

Emo

yup they are emo listen to it they sound emo they look emo they probably smell emo they are emo just accept it. emo wasn't even around in the 90's whoever the dipshit that said that it died in the 90's is.

no emo has been around siece the 80s

the 80s had the fist wave with rites of spring, embrace, etc

the 90s had the 2nd wave with, Fugazi, The Get Up Kids, etc

and the 2000s is the 3rd wave with your typical Fall Out Boy, Hawthorne Heights, etc

so shut up you dont know what your talking about no body knows what the hell their talking about look at the page Emo (music) before you start with you HH is/isn't emo arguments

There's no need to continue with this. The genres are sourced so there is no means of changing it. Razorblade666 01:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Pop punk

Hawthorne heights is a pop punk band, who agrees? they are not primarily post hardcore, but pop punk. They were Emo with screamo, but the screamo element is not as important to the music now, so i'd say pop punk, and there has to be some hardcore, to be considered Post hardcore, which HH are not, so what do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.65.47 (talk) 11:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

No, seriously. Please stop changing genres on band pages. You are being very disruptive, and your contributions are not making this a more accurate or a more informative encyclopedia. Cite your sources, or your edits will be reverted every single time. Chubbles (talk) 17:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

well their myspace says pop punk

Well they are screamo and they do a amazingly good job well they might have troubles with there main scream force dead rip casey calvert —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.72.176.83 (talk) 20:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

http://www.myspace.com/hawthorneheights —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt 14 (talk • contribs) 11:36, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

and purevolume

http://www.purevolume.com/hawthorneheights —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt 14 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, but MySpace and PureVolume don't really fly for Wikipedia;s reliable source requirement. It's fine to add pop punk as a genre and source it with album reviews, interviews, or writeups about the band. HOWEVER, it is not acceptable for you to keep changing the primary genre in the first sentence of the page. For whatever reason, 12-year olds love to fight about what that first word should be; perhaps we should remove all of them and just have it say "a band". Chubbles (talk) 19:52, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

These guys are without a doubt pop punk. But they are not emo. Nobody knows what emo is these days. Do Hawthorne Heights cut themselves, wear black eyeliner, and sing about death? NO!!! Emo definitely needs to be removed from the infobox genres. Besides, there's too many genres listed there anyway. ╦ﺇ₥₥€Ԋ (talk) 16:11, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

"So cut my wrists and black my eyes..." 64.5.200.68 (talk) 21:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

song about Casey

There is a song on youtube writen by Hawthorne Heights, as a tribute to Casey. The song can be veiwed at youtubeit is called When 5 becomes 4. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaplain mos (talk • contribs) 13:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

kewl I guess

loveyourfaithLoveyourfaith (talk) 10:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

It's called "For Become One", it's track 7 on Fragile Future, lyrics: "we will always have each other/just like it was from the start/when five becomes four/and when for becomes one/you're not just passing on/you're passing on all the fun we had/you made us laugh/we only cried but once". That's the chorus anyway. Should be added at some point in the article. This article needs a total overhaul, it makes no sense, there's more on their incidents than their music - when the music is the reason why the article is notable. kiac (talk) 08:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Casey

Some of the things on this wikipedia page reporting his death are being stated as fact. No where has their been confirmation of asthma or a blood clot- even to the point of the band themselves granting an interview to MTV and openly saying Casy HAD NO asthma issues. This page needs some serious cleanup. There shouldn't be any editing allowed until we know the full, OFFICIAL cause of death of Casey Calvert. He doesn't deserve rumors flying about him on the internet. There was enough disrespect to the band while he was alive, let's not fuel the fire with false claims.

76.177.43.7 17:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)Amanda

R.I.P. Casey. We love and miss you!

i agree with above. if you read the mtv interview the band says that they dont know how he died and they are waiting for the coroners report. DONNT SPRED LIES OR RUMORS. HONOR HIS MEMORY!!!!

well if he's dead we should remove the screamo label from the genres, I cant imagine TJ screaming. TJ Did do screamo, but on the band list it says he's deceased, i mean Ffs the word deceased sounds like he rotted to death or something, its like he passed away and they just go on about 'oh he's dead' and all that, why cant his memories and good times friends, family and fellow members of HH be remembered in a good way and not by slating him with one of the most cringing words in the dictionary, if you have a heart you'll feel the same way. R.i.p Buddy

The guys name is JT. Reverting that edit as unconfirmable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SayUnclePal (talk • contribs) 19:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

If there is enough well-sourced material on the life and career of Casey Calvert, perhaps someone would write a full Wikipedia article about him? At this point attempts to add him to deaths lists on Wikipedia will be blocked. An article on any individual added is needed to prevent Wikipedia from becoming a memorial site for everyone who dies. If an article can be written to conform to NPOV, sourcing and notability standards this will no longer be an issue. DoktorDec (talk) 11:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Doktor dude is right, why does "The Rev" get his own page while Casey Calvert doesn't? If you ask me, he was just as important a musician and he deserves his own page.

R.I.P. Casey, Hawthorne Heights is not the same without you. <3 74.12.188.158 (talk) 06:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

But nobody is asking you? WP:NMUSIC. kiac. (talk-contrib) 14:01, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

This band doesn't belong to Emo and Screamo

It is interesting to see, what genres bands could be categorized.

The sources for the "screamoband Hawthorne Heights" are stupid. I mean, what is yahoo? isn't it a just normal newsportal with mainstream information and no knowlegde in underground music? So what is this for a serious source? it isn't. "Allmusicguide" can be used only sometimes, too, because of the sometimes wrong information.

• referring to above paragraph

underground music? no, hawthorne heights is a mainstream band which has a mainstream label, it is not underground in the slightest, bands who play shows in clubs for 50-100 people and have a low popularity are underground, not a band playing stadiums......and i think yahoo knows the score, its fucking yahoo for christ sake

Also when you compare the musical style of screamo: Mosty screaming; mid-tempo D.C. Hardcore, with short (sometimes spoken) emotional parts; aggressive, chaotic screaming parts, it compares in some way with Grindcore; no Chorus, no order in the songs; Sounds like Funeral Diner, Orchid or Saetia. I don't think, this band is like that!

Mc-Ralph (German Wikipedia) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.76.34 (talk) 15:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

hawthorne heights dont have a screamer anymore, so maybe put (past material) or something just in brackets, and pop punk is probaly more accepted with people when it comes to this band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.65.47 (talk) 16:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

While true, its sourced. So, it stays. Inhumer (talk) 22:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

What about Pop punk? i sourced that yet the source and the genre were taken down —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrice34 (talk • contribs) 22:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Might have been because your source wasn't great, meaning it didn't meet wiki standerds for sources.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that Casey should be added back to where is says members, because the band them selfs said that Casey would always be apart of the band. No matter what........ No. Hes dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afia7x (talk • contribs) 03:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Pop Punk fits this band, much better than emo, if only a source could be found. Clevelandmusic24 (talk) 17:13, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

This band doesn't play emo, screamo or post-hardcore. No matter what sources say so. If I find sources saying Green Day play classical Jazz music, can I add that to the page even though it's completely obvious how they don't? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.210.87.80 (talk) 13:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Much agreed. So why does no one remove "screamo" from genres? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner (talk • contribs) 00:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

More then a few sources call them as such, that's why. You do NOT remove sourced content because you don't agree with it.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 00:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I've been ignoring everything posted in this section, because all of the calls for removal of "screamo" are based on personal opinions, most of which are neither neutral nor verifiable. No attempts to make them verified have been made, and many of the comments aren't even in proper English, which makes me even less likely to take them seriously. Chubbles (talk) 19:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Still, genre has nothing to do with opinion. This is not screamo or emo. That is fact, not opinion. If your so called "trustworthy sources" stated that Britney Spears played death metal (even though she plays pop/dance), would she play death metal? The answer to that is: No.

So no matter how many sources you find stating that Hawthorne Heights play emo or screamo, they don't. They don't even sound remotely similar to either of the genres.217.210.87.80 (talk) 15:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:V, WP:RS and WP:OR. Wikipedia makes no claim to truth, it reports what sources have stated. The answer to that question, if a verifiable and reliable source stated that britney spears played death metal, that genre would still go in the info box. "The threshold for inclusin is veriability, not truth."72.81.227.98 (talk) 19:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, no. The degree to which regular Wikipedians disregard the truth is rather staggering; we do have a responsibility to report the truth. However, there is no such thing as truth for genre designations; they are matters of opinion and opinion alone. Honestly, in cases where genres are disputed, I would prefer that no genre be listed, but damned if I'll ever get a consensus on that one. Chubbles (talk) 20:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

JT scream

Why doesnt JT scream for the band? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrice34 (talk • contribs) 14:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

It would probably affect his lead vocals, I know it'd be difficult to sing as high as he does and also scream lots of vocals...plus, it'd be difficult to do in concert as a lot of the screaming and clean singing parts overlap. James25402 (talk) 09:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

so when they play songs that had screaming. I assume JT will hold a mic out to the crowd for someone to scream? i read he said fans can provide screaming themselves if thats what they wanted

signed by loveyourfaith Loveyourfaith (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)