Talk:Haʻaheo Kaniu

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A fact from Haʻaheo Kaniu appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 2 May 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Hawaiian chieftess Haʻaheo Kaniu converted to Christianity and attended classes taught by American missionaries?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Haʻaheo Kaniu.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 16:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Hawaiian chiefess Haʻaheo Kaniu stole the future king Kalākaua as a baby?
- ALT1:... that Hawaiian chiefesses Haʻaheo Kaniu and Kuini Liliha fought over who would adopt the future king Kalākaua when he was a baby?

Comment: SPECIAL HOLD DATE: May (Asian Pacific American Heritage Month)
Reviewed: Ostrea equestris

Created by KAVEBEAR (talk). Self-nominated at 05:14, 29 February 2020 (UTC).[reply]

I think I like ALT0 the best, but the word "stole" doesn't seem to exactly reflect the relevant paragraph in the article. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:35, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to make it more hooky. How about changing it to "took". KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:33, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think that sounds more accurate. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:03, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There technically hasn't been a real review. Changing ALT0 to took doesn't make sense and adding anymore details like stole the future king Kalākaua away to raise as a baby? just makes it more bland. How about just ALT1? KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1 is the better option actually. I apologize for the late reply as I had gotten into some real-life issues lately, but I'll try to do a full review by tomorrow if not later. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:58, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article meets newness and length requirements. Assuming good faith for the offline sources. No close paraphrasing found. QPQ done. At this time, neither hook appears to be suitable. As mentioned above, in the case of ALT0, nothing in the article implies that the subject "stole" the baby. As for ALT1, the wording in the article doesn't seem to mention a "fight over" adoption with Kuini Liliha; in fact, Liliha only seems to be mentioned once all article. There appears to have been some custody battle involved, but as far as I can tell ith the current wording, it actually involved a different person other than Liliha; please correct me if I'm misinterpreting the wording. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:35, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2:... that Hawaiian chiefess Haʻaheo Kaniu adopted the future king Kalākaua as a baby?

@Narutolovehinata5: How about that? KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:44, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

While more accurate, it doesn't really sounds like a "hooky" hook. Perhaps a new direction is needed here. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:00, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT3:... that Hawaiian chiefesses Haʻaheo Kaniu left all her properties to future king Kalākaua in a verbal will?

How about this?KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:12, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, it doesn't really sound that interesting since it doesn't explain at all how important she is. It gives no context about her life or her relationship with the future king. Narutolovehinata5

ALT4:... that Hawaiian chiefesses Haʻaheo Kaniu was one of the earliest converts to Christianity and attended class taught by the American missionaries with Queen Keōpūolani and Princess Nāhiʻenaʻena?

How about this?KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:43, 5 April 2020 (UTC) ^tccsdnew 12:19, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's a bit on the long side and perhaps a bit too complicated. Perhaps just stick with the "one of the earliest converts to Christianity" angle? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 17:06, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT5:... that Hawaiian chiefesses Haʻaheo Kaniu was one of the earliest converts to Christianity and attended class taught by the American missionaries?

How about this?KAVEBEAR (talk) 17:22, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Almost there, I just think that "Earliest converts to Christianity" needs to be made more specific: it should be specified somehow that she was among the first in Hawaii as the current wording gives the impression that she was among the first Christian converts ever. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:04, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT6:... that Hawaiian chiefesses Haʻaheo Kaniu was one of the earliest converts to Christianity in Hawaii?
ALT7:... that Hawaiian chiefesses Haʻaheo Kaniu was one of the earliest converts to Christianity in Hawaii and attended class taught by the American missionaries?

I think we should go with some variant of ALT6, but I'd suggest a slight reword so that "Hawaii" isn't mentioned twice in hook. The issue right now is that as far as I can tell nothing in the article says that she was "one of the earliest converts" in Hawaii, only that she was a convert. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:52, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You have to understand the context of the history. No ali'i seriously converted until 1823 following in the steps of Queen Keōpūolani. Here is another one. You are not going get anything more interesting than what have been suggested. KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:56, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT8:... that Hawaiian chiefesses Haʻaheo Kaniu converted to Christianity and attended class taught by the American missionaries?

ALT6 was fine and probably the best option, it just needed to be mentioned in the article because as far as I could tell at the time it's never mentioned explicitly. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:43, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Check these edits. KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:46, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. ALT6 is almost ready to go, all that's needed is for the relevant reference to be duplicated at the end of the sentence mentioning her being one of the earliest converts. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 06:42, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: See this. KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:28, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We should be good to go then. I'm assuming good faith for the sources as the sources are offline. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I came by to promote this, but I am not seeing the ALT6 hook fact ("the earliest converts to Christianity") in either footnote 11 or 12. Yoninah (talk) 15:55, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I said earlier, “You have to understand the context of the history. No ali'i seriously converted until 1823 following in the steps of Queen Keōpūolani.” None of the sources are on the nose about it but her and her husband’s conversion followed the queen thus one of the earliest. ALT8 bypass this gray area. KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:04, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Restoring tick for ALT8, which is verified by the source. Yoninah (talk) 16:08, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]