Talk:Grey School of Wizardry

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Deletion discussions:
Withdrawn, November 26 2013, see discussion. Speedy delete, per criteria G4, December 17 2007, see discussion. delete, January 7 2007, see discussion.

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Note that Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Rosencomet/Grey_School_of_Wizardry was closed as keep on December 23, 2007.

Brought into mainspace from Articles for Creation[edit]

Thank you Lugia2453 for creating the page and for your valuable guidance. I have looked at the Find Links suggestions and have now added links to the article so it may be able to lose the "orphan" tag if you agree.Frances Di Lauro 14:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fcia0423 (talk • contribs)

Created Article[edit]

This article has been created in co-operation with a couple of relatively new editors who have been working on one that had been deleted. I have eliminated the peacock language and repetitious material, added many additional references and further reading, and IMO generally improved the article. I consider the subject notable and the enclosed references and inline citations to support this. I'm sure if it is given the time, other editors will add to it and improve it beyond my work. Please help it along, and feel fee to advise.Rosencomet (talk) 21:34, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Speedy Delete[edit]

This article is very different from the one deleted in 2007. The original article had no references or citations supporting it's notability, it had very few links to other articles, and the author had been editing for less than one year. None of that is true now. Also, the article had been recreated and nominated for deletion after these speedy delete nominations, and that time the vote was to "KEEP" (Dec. 23, 2007). Also, the School has been operating for six years since then, and has become more notable in that time. Rosencomet (talk) 15:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Suggestion to Merge with The Grey School of Wizardry[edit]

In my opinion, it makes perfect sense to either merge the articles or just keep the one which is more complete, less repetitious, and more objective, with less peacock language and advertising copy. I admit that I am biased as the author of this article, Grey School of Wizardry. I appreciate the work done by the other author, and I care not whether the merge is done by altering his or mine; I just want the one with the best chance of surviving challenges to remain. However, I consider the nomination for deletion to be wholly without merit. The subject is clearly notable, and sufficient citations and references have been provided to prove it. With time, I'm sure additional material will be added to support it even more. This school is a 501c3 organization, has hundreds of students, and is a project whose faculty and advisers include some of the most respected members of the Neo-Pagan community. Rosencomet (talk) 18:46, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Grey School of Wizardry[edit]

Grey School of Wizardry was created 17 November, about the same school. This article was created in February 2013, but is currently in the middle of being listed for deletion by a new editor. Ruby Murray 14:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, it makes perfect sense to either merge the articles or just keep the one which is more complete, less repetitious, and more objective, with less peacock language and advertising copy. I admit that I am biased as the author of Grey School of Wizardry. I appreciate the work done by the other author, and I cafe not whether the merge is done by altering his or mine; I just want the one with the best chance of surviving challenges to remain. However, I consider the nomination for deletion to be wholly without merit. The subject is clearly notable, and sufficient citations and references have been provided to prove it. With time, I'm sure additional material will be added to support it even more. This school is a 501c3 organization, has hundreds of students, and is a project whose faculty and advisers include some of the most respected members of the Neo-Pagan community. Rosencomet (talk) 18:43, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. I have no preference for which article is merged into the other. Binksternet (talk) 20:20, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Snow merge to Grey School of Wizardry, as the better title.

Please be careful though with absolutist claims such as "first" and with subjective and imprecisely defined terms like "school of wizardry". It's implausible that this is the first pagan school and "wizardry" has been used for everything from religion to conjuring to compiler design. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ironically, "This article was created via the article wizard" (from box above)Rosencomet (talk) 18:27, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

LOL.

Like.

Binksternet (talk) 19:41, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merged[edit]

I just manually merged Frances Di Lauro's The Grey School of Wizardry with Rosencomet's Grey School of Wizardry. The latter name was chosen per discussion above, per the original article which was created in 2007, and per the school's own official name. If anybody wishes to also merge the article histories then an administrator will be required. Binksternet (talk) 23:28, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Third Line[edit]

Binksternet, the source doesn’t say that it’s the “world's first wizard academy”. It says that it’s the “world’s only registered wizard academy”, and that it’s “the first wizard school to be officially recognized as an academic establishment”. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 03:53, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we can both read. What's your point? The text I put into the article represented the source well: "It has been called the world's first wizard academy and was reportedly recognized as an academic institution."

You will need to narrow your concern down for me as I do not see what you are getting at. Binksternet (talk) 04:11, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But it hasn’t “been called the world’s first Wizard academy”; just the first registered one (whatever that means). The way the third sentence is written it infers that:

1. The school was the first wizard academy

2. The school is recognized as an academic institution

When what the source actually says is that the school is the first wizard academy to be recognized as an academic institution. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 04:25, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If that is your take on the issue, why did you not edit the sentence to say "It has been called the world's first wizard academy to be recognized as an academic institution", or similar? Instead you removed the text. Binksternet (talk) 05:13, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the text because it wasn’t supported by its source. I didn’t correct it because I wasn’t sure that the corrected sentence was appropriate for the lead as its entire meaning would have been changed. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 05:46, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Astounding. You would rather remove the text completely (utterly changing its meaning) than make a small change to keep it, for fear that this would change its "entire meaning". If my head weren't screwed on it would be spinning. Binksternet (talk) 05:53, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The WP:MOS states that “apart from trivial basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article”. If I changed the lead then the body had to address the changes. The body does not appear to explain in precisely what way the school is “registered” or “recognized”, so I wasn’t sure it was appropriate to include the corrected sentence. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 06:15, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Meaning of Color[edit]

I believe the "Grey" in the school's name is more a reference to the middle ground between light and dark than it is a reference to Tolkien, but it bears checking out on their website. Steamboat28 (talk) 22:45, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected[edit]

For the record, I have temporarily semi-protected this article due to a wave of single purpose accounts and IPs (which are obviously logged-out versions of said accounts) which are edit warring to introduce WP:COI edits and remove sourced content (viz. WP:NPOV issues). The version at the time of semi-protection matches the last stable/pre-COI version. --Kinu ^t/_c 18:05, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Kinu. Dumuzid (talk) 18:19, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]