Talk:Grenadier

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China's defenders along the Great Wall's battlements employed grenades as part of the defensive system to defeat nomad incursions. I would feel good claiming they were doing this by the Ming Dynasty, and possibly earlier...

Could the title of this article be changed to perhaps "Grenadier (assault soldier)"? Trooper is historically a cavalry soldier.

Why not just soldier instead for assault soldier? Carl Logan 19:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - assult trooper sounds too futuristic or at least contemporary for an essentially 18th century concept. Grenadier (soldier) would do the trick.Buistr 01:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If there is no opposition I will move it tomorrow. Carl Logan 11:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No opposition? After two days nothing so I am moving it now. Carl Logan 19:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Granatieri di Sardegna[edit]

I've posted a few correction to the "Italy" part of this voice. There never were five "Granatieri di Sardegna" regiments, but at most three. Currently there is a single one and *maybe* the 2nd Rgt will be re-activated next year. Best regards --Arturolorioli (talk) 13:43, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Grenadier headdress[edit]

Could the anonymous editor who has repeatedly deleted sourced and referenced material relating to historic grenadier mitres and fur hats provide some reason for his actions. Otherwise I will just have to keep restoring it in what seems a particularly pointless edit war.Buistr (talk) 09:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is "Hatmen" a reference to the grenadiers or to the musketeers? The way the opening sentence of the Headgear section is written seems to imply that it's the musketeers who are called "hatmen", but it's a little vague:

From a distance, grenadiers were most distinguishable from the musketeers (or Hatmen as they were called in comparison) by their head-wear, famously the mitre cap and the bearskin.

Perhaps it could be made a little clearer, or simply left out since it's a little confusing to drop in this musketeer factoid in a section about the headgear of grenadiers. --71.189.159.51 (talk) 11:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Good suggestion. I have rewritten this slightly clumsy sentence in an effort to clarify its meaning. For the record "hatmen" were the ordinary musketeers who made up the bulk of each regiment of foot.Buistr (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Swedish grenadiers[edit]

It should be clarified that there are in fact three Grenadier companies. One is as described in the article (though I'm unsure if they are Grenadier Guards "livgrenadjärer" or just grenadiers), and the other two are mechanized companies, the 421st mechanized company and the 412th mechanized company. Both the 421st and 412th consist of GSS/T, or "reserves". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.231.112.85 (talk) 11:43, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Flintlock instead of Matchlock[edit]

When grenades had a rope fuze instead of a mechanical timer, grenadiers had as their firearm the more expensive flintlock (musket) instead of the matchlock [?] that the line infantry carried. This was to prevent the slow-match that they used to light the grenade fuzes from accidentally igniting the charge in their sidearm. The troops who accompanied the artillery had the same flintlock musket so as not to accidentally set off a loaded and primed cannon or gunpowder stores. These flintlocks were more expensive than the matchlocks, making for another way that grenadiers were more expensive than line infantry.

I'm putting this here because I don't have the source at this instant. 173.162.253.101 (talk) 14:12, 19 July 2014 (UTC) (Concord Public Library)[reply]

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Austria[edit]

The article overlooks the influence of the Austrian Habsburg armies regarding the introduction of grenadiers into European armies in the mid C17th. Similarly, the introduction of the fashion for fur-trimmed grenadier caps came via the Austrian army whose grenadier wore them throughout the C18th century.

The question of Ottoman influence on Austria via the lengthy confrontation in the Danube borderlands should also be considered in relation to both these points.

JF42 (talk) 09:09, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some comments and amendments[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedianos/as. Amendments made for brevity, clarity and accuracy.

'a specialized soldier' specialist

'for the throwing of grenades and sometimes assault operations' Excise 'sometimes'

'fortification breaches' Excise 'breaches'

'although this role was more usually fulfilled by all-arm units of volunteers called forlorn hopes, and might also be fulfilled by sappers or pioneers.' Excise as unecessary detail.

Origins

'who made the grenadier an official type of soldier and company' substitute it was during the reign of Louis XIV that grenadiers were introduced into the French army

'introduced the idea of having men detailed to throw grenades' substitute who formed companies of men trained to throw grenades

'a war games encampment' Excise 'war games' as imprecise, anachronistic substitute drilling

'roughly the size of a baseball' Substitute tennis ball as more universal

Early distinctions

'The wide hats with broad brims characteristic of infantry during the late 17th century were discarded' Incorrect. French grenadiers continued to wear hats until mid-C18th

'contemporary long arms' For brevity and clarity, substitute flintlock muskets

'the uniform included a belt tube that held the match' Substitute 'Attached to a shoulder belt was a brass match case that housed the 'slow match' used to ignite the grenade fuse.'

Elite status

'massive linear tactics' excise 'massive' as unnecessary

'subsistence pay' excise 'subsistence' as unnecessary

'the grenadiers were always the company which formed on the right flank etc' substitute the grenadier company always formed on the right of the line

'In the British Army, when Trooping the Colour, "The British Grenadiers" march is played no matter which regiment is on the parade ground, as the colour party stands at the right-hand end of the line, as every regiment formerly had a company of grenadiers at the right of their formation." What purpose does this section serve? The colour party parades in front of the troops at the centre of the line.

Headgear This section is a dog’s breakfast, full of imprecision, contradiction and error. It needs a complete overhaul. Meanwhile-

Wherever found 'fur hats' is replaced with fur caps

'who made up the bulk of' Excised as uneccessary 'The practice fell into disuse' Not so. Austrians wore the fur cap throughout the C18th 'the second half of the 18th' Mid-18th

'France used smaller bearskins' Not notably smaller. In what period? Citation required

'By the advent of the Napoleonic Wars' during 'the French Old Guard' Incorrect. Not the 'Old Guard.' Subsitute Imperial Guard

'By 1840, by order of George IV' George IV died in 1827

'all three of the guards regiments adopted the bearskin cap' substitute In 1831 it was ordered all three Foot Guards should wear the bearskin cap

'All British infantry grenadiers' etc substitute The grenadier company in infantry regiments meanwhile retained the bearskin dress for parade dress until 1842 (See: Barthorp.M, 'Infantry Uniforms from 1660' p.74)

Reference to Foot Guards in Crimea amended.

United Kingdom 'The Grenadier Guards are one of the five prestigious regiments of Foot Guards, each of which retain the bearskin headdress' Substitute The Grenadier Guards are the most senior of the five prestigious regiments of Foot Guards, each of which retains the bearskin headdress originally associated with grenadiers.

'The Grenadier Guards are officially recognized' etc Re-drafted

Although the Coldstream Guards can trace their origins to an earlier date (1650) than that of the Grenadiers Guards (1656), they are officially recognized as second in seniority since having been formed initially to serve the Commonwealth, their service to the Crown only dates from the Restoration of the Monarchy in 1660. JF42 (talk) 08:01, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"a brimless hat permitted the grenadier greater ease in throwing the grenade overhand."

Might I suggest a more authoritative source than an early Osprey be found to authenticate what I am certain is folklore that has repeated down the years. If the brims of felt hats did create an obstacle -if, and this has been questioned numerous places ( 1.The arc of the overhand throwing arm is not perpendicular 2. It's suggested that in any case grenades were more likely thrown underarm)- they could be and were cocked. Do we have a period reference? Noting the author's biography, in the annals of British regimental mythology, Foot Guards tradition is a particularly fertile source of such factoids relating to the origins of various uniform details. I think it would be fair to insert an 'it is suggested' into the above sentence until a more convincing reference. JF42 (talk) 18:25, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Section Canada: picture does not show Grenadiers[edit]

The soldiers in the picture guarding Rideau Hall are not grenadiers. They have a red plume in their bearskins, which for all grenadiers in the British style should be white and their buttons grouped in twos where the Canadian Grenadier Guards have them single. See also the page of the Canadian Grenadier Guards. They most likely are The Governor General’s Foot Guards. Henk-wkp (talk) 13:43, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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