Talk:Green Ukraine

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Untitled[edit]

I think it makes sense. I only started the Zelenyj Klyn article because in a couple of articles on the Ukrainian Diaspora there were references to it with no article. How do you propose we do it? Bandurist 23:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know because it looks like Green Ukraine is only about the short lived movement for statehood in the area, but your Zeleny Klyn article is about the history of the area in general. Could the final article be added to the {{Ukrainian historical regions}} template? Ostap 23:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Why not. I was basically translating the article in the Ukrainian encyclopedia with some additions I had picked up. See you at the Kuiv discussion Bandurist 23:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

“ethnic Ukrainian majority land”[edit]

Sorry, but the territory referred to as Zeleny Klin has never been inhabited by a Ukrainian majority. According to the Russian 1897 Census, there were 33,000 Ukrainians in the Primorskaya Oblast [1] (15 % of all its population). Your claim about the Ukrainian majority is at the moment completely unsourced. By the way, if you add new information to the article and get reverted, you have to go to the talk page and ground your edit there, not to revert back and start an edit war. --Glebchik (talk) 18:17, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fehler...[edit]

cor·re·spond·ing. Selbsterhalt.--85.212.177.134 (talk) 14:40, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Capital[edit]

Could someone please figure out the capital city? It should really be in the article. 128.114.226.151 (talk) 19:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

do we know why it was called green?[edit]

I doubt the Soviets were pulling this trick, but hey, maybe they were. Was there some political significance? What with there being a Red Army and a White Army, maybe the Greens were part of that too. The Russian article hints that there were other colors for other territories, so maybe it means nothing in particular .... just the color that it ended up on the map? —Soap— 18:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think its just a contrast with the rest of icy east siberia, maybe also just 'green' to distinuiguish itself from 'normal' ukraine Sjobenrit (talk) 19:46, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It has to do with associations between cardinal directions and colors in Slavic culture. Green corresponds with East, hence the name. It's the same reason why Belarus is known as White (North) Ruthenia. See more here under the "cultural variations" section. GreasyMax (talk) 18:21, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not really independent[edit]

I know that in the Russian civil war terms like 'independent' are hard to use but basically the green ukraine movement got surpressed after the november 1918 kolchak coup, so to say that it lasted from 1917-1922 (as it is now) is a bit too positive in my opinion. It had no real power, espescially not compared to the soviet backed far east gouverment or kolchacks gouverment Sjobenrit (talk) 19:49, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed split[edit]

I propose to split the current Green Ukraine article into two articles. The current article would be limited to covering Green Ukraine as an ethnographic region of Ukrainians. The other would be about the Green Ukrainian government which existed during the Russian Civil War. I would argue that such a move would be absolutely logical both based on the precedent of other articles on similar topics (see Crimea versus Crimean People's Republic, North Caucasus versus the Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus, or Kuban versus Kuban People's Republic), as well as the fact that the history of Green Ukraine dates back to both before (see here, including information about Green Ukrainian history dating back to the 18th century) and after (see here, detailing the activities of Green Ukrainian nationalists and the OUN in Manchuria, and here, discussing briefly post-Soviet Green Ukrainian culture and crackdowns) the state which existed during the Russian Civil War. Currently, the article discusses two interrelated, but separate topics, something which a reader may find confusing, especially given the fact that, for most of Green Ukraine's 250-year existence, it has not been a country.

Mupper-san (talk) 04:21, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. There’s also the broader article Ukrainians in Siberia, and there were Far East Ukrainian Congresses[2] in 1917–18 whose relationship with this subject I’m not exactly clear on. —Michael Z. 16:29, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Sounds like good changes. Cononsense (talk) 16:36, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose i suggest to expand the main article rather than to split - Jjpachano (talk)

@Jjpachano: But as it is now, the article covers both Green Ukraine as a region and Green Ukraine as a government. It'd be like if the article for Bashkiria (1917–1919) covered the entire history of Bashkiria as a country, or the Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus the entire history of North Caucasian Muslims, or so on and so forth. Green Ukrainians existed not just prior to the existence of the Green Ukrainian government of the Russian Civil War, but after, as well, both in Japanese-occupied Manchuria before and during World War II and in the areas of Green Ukraine proper in the 1990s and 2000s. The problem isn't that the current article lacks information, by any means, but that it covers too many bases, so I don't think expanding it would be the right move, especially given the existence of a government in Green Ukraine is well-attested. Mupper-san (talk) 02:10, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Jeffhardyfan08 (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on current content. Topics can always be divided per WP:SUMMARYSTYLE, but there just isn't anything to summarise here. Coverage of the government is a couple of sentences in the lead, a couple of sentences in History, an exclusively bullet point "Historical outline" section, and I suppose the infobox. I'm not seeing much potential confusion in the way the current lead is written. If the issue is the infobox, then the easiest solution is just to remove it, or to move it to the "Historical outline" section (and maybe rename that section to Green Ukrainian Government). CMD (talk) 07:58, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have shifted the infobox in line with this idea. CMD (talk) 07:34, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, assuming that more information on the government is added to the new article, as there isn't much in the current article. Shwabb1 (talk) 10:28, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, for better readability NocheLluviosa (talk) 05:52, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there isn't enough content to justify a split and as-is it's not that confusing imo. If the article gets significantly expanded, sure, but until then this is fine. Dan the Animator 05:26, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral, I think it should be created if there is enough information to make the new article long enough in depth, and @Jerium, should we close this discussion or not btw? PoisonHK _{Sapiens dominabitur astris} 07:49, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]