Talk:Green Flake

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A fact from Green Flake appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 July 2016 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Green Flake was one of the first African-Americans to enter the Salt Lake Valley?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2016/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Green Flake.

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Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk · contribs) has been paid by BYU. Their editing has included contributions to this article. COI declarations on userpage
Alexislynn(BYU) (talk · contribs) has been paid by BYU. Their editing has included contributions to this article. COI declarations on userpage

Unpublished Source[edit]

I have added the further citations needed to the article because of its reliance on the unpublished Ronald Coleman source. In particular, the Slave Status section includes this source a number of times.

In addition, the Slave Status section appears to editorialize Brigham Young's attitude toward Black men such as Flake. It makes a statement that Young freed Flake, using the unpublished source, after claiming earlier in the article that not all Flake descendants agree this was the case. It's confusing to the reader. It also makes a illogical link that Young saw Flake as an equal because he mediated an argument between Flake and his owner. This also uses the unpublished source as a citation. Further, no mention is made of Young's legalizing slavery in 1852, nor his announcement of priesthood denial to Black men in the same year.

Can we come to a consensus that finds a better source for the Coleman claims, while also approaching the issue of slave status with all of the facts? Seeker095 (talk) 04:21, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As of today, this whole article is poorly written, not encyclopedic style, and contains fictional and inaccurate content. The Coleman source is a dissertation and is one of the most reliable current sources and does meet Wikipedia standards. I'll edit the citation to reflect that. The Joel Flake paper is an unpublished, undergraduate paper and probably should not be used. University of Utah Press is publishing a book next year on slavery in Utah that can be cited here, but for now, some clean up would be helpful to put the article into encyclopedic style and remove unsourced claims. Thank you for adding the template message. KHearts (talk) 14:19, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the extensive cleanup. The UofU book will be a welcome addition to this and other articles. Seeker095 (talk) 15:55, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, my student AlexisLynn created the page back in 2016. I'm happy to help clean up the page.KHearts it sounds like you are very familiar with the sources available on Green Flake. Are there others that you would recommend? Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:26, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I found Flake's entry at Century of Black Mormons and some extensive footnotes in Bound for Canaan, among others. I'm not sure if I can use Bound for Canaan as a source, since it's historical fiction, but the part I would be citing is from the historical notes by Margaret Blair Young and Darius Gray. I'll keep looking and see if I can find the information in other sources. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 19:07, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bound for Canaan uses information from the Joel Flake essay extensively, which was previously discussed as unreliable. Sorry for the blow-by-blow description of my source analysis! Maybe it's more info than you wanted. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 19:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Myths about Green Flake[edit]

There are several versions of the myth of Green Flake being donated to the LDS Church as tithing. The one edited into this entry in January 2022 is a new invention, moving the supposed donation back about six years and situating it in Nauvoo instead of Utah. Green was never donated as tithing. That claim from a child of his enslavers (William Flake) is based on an error of memory many decades later. For a discussion, see the lecture at Mormon History Association, June 2021, “‘Freed in the South’: Latter-day Saint Biographies and Historical Inaccuracies about Slavery” by Amy Tanner Thiriot. From the presentation: "Not only was it not legally possible for [William Flake’s] mother to donate property from her husband’s estate, but historical documentation confirms that his childhood memory was faulty. However, the myth spread, and is now enshrined in public memory. Flake’s invention may have been an attempt to redeem his family’s engagement in slavery by reimagining their involvement as a sacred tithing donation.” KHearts (talk) 16:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AI-enhanced Image?[edit]

I noticed that the image on this article was oddly smudged about the details (such as the texture of Flake's tie, or his hat partially blending into the chair), and the description calls it "digitally-enhanced". It looks to me that the image has been poorly upscaled with AI, and would like to know if 1.) that is the case, and 2.) if the image could be replaced with the original non-upscaled image. I'd much rather have to parse an old photo than a rough facsimile, if possible. 205.185.107.19 (talk) 10:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]