Talk:Grahovljani

Tahirovići

@Alltan Morozova does mention this, maybe I wasn’t as accurate but he writes about the Tahirovići and Maleschreiber gave me this source? Surix321 (talk) 13:32, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

What exactly is the source? It just says "Morozova 2018", I don't see any titles. Also if you could provide the quote? Specifically the one about supposed DNA similarities.Alltan (talk) 13:37, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

The source is this, if you can do control find for the DNA part that would be good since I am not on my desktop currently. Surix321 (talk) 13:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Feel free to post the quote and page in the talk page when you have time, then we can take it from there.Alltan (talk) 14:41, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Okay Surix321 (talk) 14:41, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

The two genealogies from Velja Gorana (see Figures 3 and 4) allow us to suggest that the ancestors of Kovačevići and Tahirovići may have come to this place in the middle of the nineteenth century, probably after the battle of Grahovac (1858). p 18 of the pdf, 16-22 is the section that speaks about them. Surix321 (talk) 23:13, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

How is "after the battle of Grahovac" the same as "came from Grahovo"? Is there more to this quote perhaps or what am I missing here?Alltan (talk) 23:16, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

I'll add an additional quote Surix321 (talk) 23:59, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

The modern family of Kovačevići actually embraces two nonrelated kins. According to our informants, one of them descends from a person called Danila Kovačević from the area of Grahovo, a settlement in the Nikšić municipality in the west of Montenegro, which belonged to the Ottoman Empire for several centuries and became Montenegrin after the 1858 battle of Grahovac. The ancestor of Kovačevići is said to have escaped from a blood feud to the area of Mrkovići. After having found himself in the Muslim community, he converted to Islam, and all his descendants since then have been Muslim (Montenegro: Velja Gorana 2014 p 17 Surix321 (talk) 00:01, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Very educational. How does it relate to Tahirovići stemming from Grahovac?Alltan (talk) 00:11, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

"the ancestor of kovacevici is said to have escaped from a blood feud", Most likely had a blood feud as this was common, +The Ottomans burned a few villages during the Battle im pretty sure, might be wrong/ Surix321 (talk) 00:15, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Might be of the same origin Surix321 (talk) 00:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

I would suggest being much more careful with the way you use and interpret bibliography on Wikipedia.Alltan (talk) 00:21, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

The origin is not clear for Tahirovici, in another text he says that the Tahirovici are not Kovacevici but they were somehow integrated with the Kovacevici, I'm not sure if Tahirovici should be included. Surix321 (talk) 00:24, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Please read the source material before adding them into the article. The study makes it absolutely clear that the Tahiri stem from the Albanian tribe of the Midha/Mide, and it does this multiple times: pg.20: "As Figure 3 shows, the descendants of Tahir tend to establish matrimonial bonds mainly with the neighboring Albanian-speaking areas and particular villages. The wife of one of the first representatives of this descent group was from Mide, the village of their origin, while his son married a girl from another Albanian-speaking village, Klezna"; pg 17. "The second descent group in the now-Kovačevići family was previously called Tahirovići / Tahiri (i.e. descendants of Tahir), and its founder(s) came to Velja Gorana from the Albanian village of Mide in Ana e Malit. Even now some descendants continue to emphasize the Albanian origin of their ancestors: “our fis (Alb. ‘kin’) is Albanian, we have grandfathers and great-grandfathers from the Albanian side” ". Their origin is not disputed, but even if it was, the study says absolutely nothing about them arriving from anywhere near Grahovac.Alltan (talk) 00:46, 18 June 2022 (UTC)