Talk:Golden age hip hop

The golden age of hip hop was between 1987 and 1993. Period.

All this post '93 nonsense is recentism from those whom weren't around. I can't understand why this is so hard to fathom - it's a "known quantity" in hip hop circles, but I guess it's from that grey period not clearly documented by the world wide web. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.168.22.120 (talk) 09:41, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

---yeaaah that makes sense, 1994 was such a terrible year for hiphop, right? We only saw the release of classic debuts from the greatest rappers of all time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.159.62.194 (talk) 20:57, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

1997?

I changed the year when the Golden Age ended to around 1993 instead of 1997 which it originally said. The AllMusic reference actually says 1993 and doesn't mention 1997, and it is inaccurate to say that G-Funk started to become popular in 1997. G-Funk was fading by '97 and it saw most of its popularity in the early or mid 90s and by the later 90s it had lost popularity. As it is commonly referred to, the Golden Age is late 80s, early 90s, it doesn't go up to '97. - BBonds —Preceding comment was added at 23:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I consider the term to be 'old-school hip-hop' not golden age at all. It really started with Grandmaster Flash but a good LP to note its beginnings would be RUN-DMC's first or second album. I also believe the end of the 'old school' phase, the last album before the real turning of the tide to 'gansta this and gansta that' was De La Soul's STAKES IS HIGH. That was 95 i believe, and to me, is the perfect epilogue of that generation. Even De La sounded different from then on. So I'd say the golden age was '85-'95. And all about some NYC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.136.98.198 (talk) 16:51, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I would say the golden age was the whole 90s decade. That's what most people refer to when talking about the golden age of hip hop. But If I had to be specific, I would say about 1987-1997. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.82.187.246 (talk) 23:32, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect. You may say that, but you're wrong. The golden age ended in 1993. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.53.222.20 (talk) 05:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Terminology

I'd just like to point out that Tupac, for instance, wasn't talking about the pressures of "urban life" as such. He was talking about poverty. There is a significant difference. Every man and his cat lives in an urban environment these days so a distinction is relevant. No offense to the "penthouse rappers". Or maybe so... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.81.209 (talk) 18:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, at some point some marketing people made "urban" a euphemism for "black," which is sloppy use of language at best. MrBook (talk) 21:41, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Golden age?

I was just wondering where the term "golden age" comes from? As the article has no citations it seems like a bit of orginal research. Is it possible to put some references into the article? - Master Of Ninja 18:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

It comes from nowhere. There is no golden age of hip hop. This is nothing more than an essay. PennyGWoods 22:30, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The 'Golden Age' just means the best time of Hip-Hop (The early 90's, in my opinion). And also, if you have nothing good to say, then shut up, because people don't really want to hear negative crap. Or, I don't. He asked a question, you didn't have to insult the article if you don't, and you clearly don't, know the answer to it. The word 'Golden Age' is just a term used for the beginning, or the most interesting period of something such as a fad, or even existance itself in more medieval times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.107.246.184 (talk • contribs)

"shut up, because people don't really want to hear negative crap." -astounding. have you ever...actually...heard a rap album???! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.81.209 (talk) 18:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Golden Age? I always referred to golden age as post new school, and pre-gangster. It was the renaissance of hip hop where new styles were being explored. There was more variety in subjects, and different styles of music were being explored, just like old school hip hop was attempting to do. With the introduction of new school in 1983 (arguably with Run DMC's "Sucker MCs", the golden age came shortly after around 1986, and definitely was in effect with the release of Run DMC's "Raising Hell", Public Enemy's "Yo Bum Rush The Show", and Boogie Down Production's "Criminal Minded." I guess a few years of playing around with the new school style was required before the golden age could officially begin.

I guess the semantics of "golden age" could be argued, but there was a definite distinction to that time period of music between 1986 to 1993. After gangsta, it all became a bit derivative and the "golden" era had ended. GDaKine 05:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)gDaKine

I feel the Goldne age of Hip Hop was from 1985-1997

Golden Age, Entire Concept Ridiculous! I disagree with the entire concept of a golden age at all. It seems to me that people want to take their favorite period in hip hop and call it the golden age.

I think the term golden age is completely ridiculous. No era can truly be defined as golden. 79-83 is one era, 83-86 another, 86-91 another, 91-94 another. Name them what you want, but neither can truly be called golden. It just depends on your style and taste.

This entire page should be deleted. The concept is purely subjective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.228.199.114 (talk) 23:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Post-AfD chat

Hi. Since the article for deletion debate seems to be moving towards keeping the article, I would like to suggest some steps to make this article better.

1. References: Everyone keeps on saying that the golden age is mentioned everywhere; put some references in to make sure people know where it comes from! This was one of my major points on the page that the source can be followed. See Wikipedia:Citing_sources and the <ref> element. I think some citationneeded placeholders might be required.
2. Move the list of golden age musicians etc. to a different page, and just mention the notable few. Otherwsie lists like this tend to become unmanageable with everyone adding in their own favourite artists into it.
3. If the golden age is from 1986, why is there a line saying that it was the point where Def Jam was founded, when later on in the article Def Jam is linked with 1984?

Comments? Suggestions? - Master Of Ninja 08:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The article is missing a history section like the similar Old school hip hop article. I think the article should read more like a timeline stating how things changed over the years, who introduced what, when.... etc.? Anyone agree? - Tutmosis 02:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

post afd-move

We should rename this to golden age hip hop. To call it "The golden age of hip hop" is like saying its a definite period, when, to be honest, there is some bluriness. With this new name, the article could cover various opinions.--Urthogie 10:42, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. If you remember, the article was originally named just that. As a newbie to both Wikipedia and WP:HH, I asked for it to be moved, and gave a long explanation as to why. You, unfortunately, listened to me and agreed, instead of smacking me for my idiocy. Anyway, I'll move it back when I have a chance, unless anyone objects. That way it will match in nomenclature with Old school hip hop. Λυδαcιτγ^{(TheJabberwock)} 03:34, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I've closed the discussion and moved the article, deleting the original redirect that was there. Clean it up and reference it, please.  RasputinAXP  c 10:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

We'll start referencing.--Urthogie 15:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Uhh... I'm not sure about this, so I'm reluctant to make the change unilaterally, but wouldn't Profile [1] be considered the first independent golden age record label? As I have understood it, almost no hip hop was affiliated with major labels early on (Kurtis Blow being a major exception.[2])

Freedomchild 06:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The golden age of hip hop didn't begin with golden age artists, but rather with their popularity and influence throughout the hip hop culture.--Urthogie 08:51, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Right, but in the article it says "During this period, Def Jam became the first independent hip hop record label." During the early days of hip hop there was no major label support for the music. Almost everything was released independently. (i.e. Sugar Hill, Profile, Sleeping Bag/Fresh, Enjoy, Select) Kurtis blow is the only exception I know of for this era. So it seems to be misleading to say that Def Jam was the first independent label. Unless I'm misunderstanding what the original poster meant to say. Freedomchild 09:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see you're right. That should be clarified.--Urthogie 15:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Why are these years the golden age?

I wonder why those years are considered "the golden age" meanwhile 1994-1996 saw such classic albums as:

• The Notorious B.I.G. - Ready to Die (1994)
• Nas - Illmatic (1994)
• OutKast - Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik (1994)
• Common - Resurrection (1994)
• Jeru the Damaja - The Sun Rises in the East (1994)
• Method Man - Tical (1994)
• Redman - Dare Iz A Darkside (1994)
• Gang Starr - Hard to Earn (1994)
• Mobb Deep - The Infamous (1995)
• Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... (1995)
• Onyx - All We Got Iz Us (1995)
• GZA - Liquid Swords (1995)
• Smif-N-Wessun - Dah Shinin' (1995)
• Das EFX - Hold It Down (1995)
• AZ - Doe or Die (1995)
• Ol' Dirty Bastard - Return to the 36 Chambers: The Dirty Version (1995)
• Bone Thugs - E. 1999 Eternal (1995)
• KRS-One - KRS-One (1995)
• Fat Joe - Jealous One's Envy (1995)
• Nas - It Was Written (1996) (Don't kid yourself, it's an underrated classic.)
• Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt (1996)
• Lost Boyz - Legal Drug Money (1996)
• Redman - Muddy Waters (1996)
• The Roots - Illadelph Halflife (1996)
• Jeru the Damaja - Wrath of the Math (1996)
• Mobb Deep - Hell on Earth (1996)
• Xzibit - At the Speed of Life (1996)
• Chino XL - Here to Save You All (1996)
• Ras Kass - Soul on Ice (1996)
• Fugees - The Score (1996)

What, just because most of these albums are Hardcore/Mafioso/Gangsta means they're not the best? They dominate albums from any other era. Accept facts and move on with life... -Tainted Drifter

You should take out Method Man Red Man Jay Z Xzibit and Fat Joe.166.82.187.246 (talk) 23:48, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

That was the era when Tupac was killed, so yes it's likely that this was a high point for the hijack's golden age. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.81.209 (talk) 18:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Despite the fact that many of those albums are classic (in my humble opinion), they're a different style. So you can't have both Run-D.M.C. and B.I.G. be "golden age" artists. I guess the reason the former is "golden age", and not the latter, is that the latter is more like what's popular today. All golden ages are (at least on the surface) far from the current trends.

Anyway, even if '94-'96 would be a better golden age in retrospect, we can't just change it. We're just an encyclopedia - we don't invent terms, we catalogue them. Since ≈'86-'93 is what is usually referred to as the golden age, that's what our golden age article must deal with. Λυδαcιτγ 00:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I think saying the golden age was from 1986 to 1993 is wrong. It's more like 1979 to 1996. I agree with Tainted Drifter. B-Machine (talk) 15:06, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Actually most people refer 1990-1999 as the golden era of hip hop.166.82.187.246 (talk) 23:48, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Anybody who refers to 1990-1999 as the golden era of hip-hop is very, very stupid or never heard of the 1980s. B-Machine (talk) 15:06, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

In your opinion because most people do think that. For some reason most people do think 80's hip hop is very simple and boring.I don't, but I do like 90's hip hop better than 80's hip hop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.82.187.246 (talk) 22:53, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I would agree that it's hard to say that the "Golden Age" of hip hop went strictly from 1986-1993, that is a good barometer. There were albums after 1993 that had a "golden age sound," but for those of us who were there, the world of hip hop really did start to change in 1993 or so when Snoop's Doggystyle album came out, and G-Funk and synth started to overtake soul and James Brown beats. Previously, those had been a niche genre (West Coast rap), but then they became the rule. You could make arguments that a lot of albums came out in 1997 and after that sounded like golden age albums (All City's Metropolis Gold, and Redman's Doc's Da Name 2000 come to mind, off the top of my head) but they are clearly outside of the "golden age." The year 1993 is pretty well established as the year the golden age gave way to more electronica and West Coast synth (Bone Thugs & Harmony, Coolio, Tha Dogg Pound, etc). I agree Illmatic fits into the golden age sound, but there was a line in the sand, and 1994 was post-golden age, in my opinion. Bill shannon 02:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Bill, I think you missed the point I was trying to convey. I wasn't implying that the albums I posted fit what's considered "Golden Age" or anything. I was questioning why those years are considered Golden Age in the first place meanwhile the mid 90s contained albums that can't be topped by any other era in terms of quality, lyrics, production and sound, but of course; that's just my opinion.--Tainted Drifter 22:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I'm kind of new to wiki, but have been a student of hip hop through all of the "ages." My definition of golden age was when we saw the first divergence in styles and this definitely ocurreed between 1986-1993, while a convergence seemed to occur in the later years, as the DJs and crews seemed to disappear and sounds became more 'G-Funked.' I believe this is why 86-93 was considered the "golden" age, as it was the first renaissance in hip hop music. Perhaps a new terminology called "Hip Hop Renaissance" is more appropriate? --GDaKine 05:23, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, these are all interesting ideas, but they are opinions and original research. For Wikipedia, it is really better if you can give citations for the terms, both those used in articles and used as names for articles. Smmurphy^(Talk) 20:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not really original research. B-Machine (talk) 15:06, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Someone added all these rappers to the list of notable golden age artists, although they clearly fall outside the range of "Golden Age hip hop" as described in the article. This has become a very confusing page because the majority of sources claim that golden age hip hop lasted until 1993, but a number of people want to include the 90s or the 80s. This discussion page shows that "golden age hip hop" is an extremely controversial label. It would be better to suggest that the term is usually used to indicate hip hop in 1986-1993, although others would include albums from 1994-96. Ossum86 —Preceding undated comment added 23:55, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Significant albums?

Maybe we should come up with a list of significant albums of this era, especially ones that are representative of the different sounds of the time period. What say you? Bill shannon 02:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it would fly, since we already have problems (see previous discussion topic) with NPOV. A similar list was deleted; a quote from the AFD may be helpful: "Agreed with the prod'd statement as to the fuzziness of the situation. It seems like pretty much any hip hop artist who was active from '85-'90 could be on this list. Since there isn't strict criteria attached to "golden age hip hop" and it is such a BROAD group of artists, it doesn't seem like it serves much of a purpose." Same thing with the albums. Λυδαcιτγ 03:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Silver Age

could the 90's be considered the silver age?,if not why isn't this murged with the old school thread? User:Blackdragon6

Are they usually called the Silver Age? If not, calling them that would violate WP:OR. Λυδαcιτγ 03:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

yes they usualy are Blackdragon6

Golden age dates

I've added a citation for this basis of dates and mentioned another view in the references, also cited. I don't like the idea that allmusic.com gets to define music in this way, and would rather weaken the language to say that some would call the golden age these dates, while others look later or earlier. Looking at other Golden Ages, most end with some sort of a major change or "devestating event (see Golden Age). Thus, it would be nice to give some event or statistical milestone to give more strength to the idea that raps glden age ended when we say it did (otherwise in 50 years, raps golden age could easily be said to stretch much further. If anyone finds other citations for the dates, they should be noted, and eventually the article should reflect the idea that the "Golden Age" of an art form is always a contested concept, and that in this case we have picked these dates (whatever dates they may be) and events, although outliers exist. Smmurphy^(Talk) 21:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

wich is why i think the early to mid 90's shoul be called the silver age of hip-hop Blackdragon6

What ended the golden age was Tupac and Biggie's deaths.--Urthogie 23:51, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Devasting Events? Look for events related to the rise of "thug" era musicians and the increase of intervention of recording companies into the art form, for example the pressure put on artists to sound more like other artists.

One event I can think of would be the first big lawsuits about sampling, which changed the entire sound of hip-hop to the present day.

Or a combination of these things is probably what marks the end of one era and the beginning of another.

New Jack swing era?

This article mentions nothing of the New Jack swing era that bridged the gap between the "Golden Age" of the 80s and the "Gangsta" Rap era of the 90s. From approximately 1987-1994 this hybrid of R&B and rap was truly the first type of, what would come to be known as, hip hop which transcended into the mainstream music scene. Example artists from this era would include Janet Jackson, Boyz II Men, Bobby Brown, and Bell Biv Devoe. 90sMusicFan 23:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem with this POV is that none of the people mentioned are rappers. They just reflected rap or hip hop's influence on popular music at the time.

Arbitrary Dates?

This would be the golden age according to whom? Hip hop fans aged 35+? Many hip hop listeners cannot stand 80s hip hop and see it as boring and simple. Yes, mid 80's rap is like your ABC's whereas mid 90s hip hop is like Moby Dick. So who came up with these dates, and is rap even old enough to assign these nostalgic categorizations yet? Maybe in 20 years a true golden age will be identified. With 1994 being a peak year. Yellowfiver 07:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Hip hop fans aged 35+? Hahaha! More like 30+ maybe, but yeah. ;) I think The Source these days calls the golden age 1990-96, but they're more or less in splendid isolation on that. 86.44.6.14 (talk) 08:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this but today's southern hip-hop is even more simple and more boring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.42.71.1 (talk) 22:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

is rap even old enough to assign these nostalgic categorizations yet?

Nope. I don't even know if there's a definitive golden age of rock, let alone rap. 70.2.65.44 (talk) 21:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Golden age of rock 80-89166.82.187.246 (talk) 22:57, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Problems

I'm surprised the hip hop wikiproject rated this a B. It has a number of problems but here is the main issue. There is basically one source. That one source does not have any information regarding a golden age of hip hop, and in fact doesn't mention the subject except for listing an album as "golden age hip hop" under "styles". Therefore extrapolating from that an article about all significant rap movements between certain dates is obviously completely unsupported, and looks a lot like original research. Any good sources I've seen don't deal with the subject in depth, many preface it with "so-called" and all I've seen use it to refer solely to East Coast hip hop. Therefore this article looks a lot like an attempt to shoehorn a phrase into authoritatively covering rap in its entirety between certain years, at variance with actual facts. If such is the case, this would be problematic and disappointing. 86.44.6.14 (talk) 07:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Obviously calling it Golden Age Hip Hop rather than Golden Age of Hip Hop reinforces this. Consider all this stuff challenged and in danger of deletion without good cites. 86.44.6.14 (talk) 01:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

- There was an attempt to have this deleted - after all, it's nothing more than a poorly written fan essay - but it was denied thanks to an orchestrated Afd campaign. The article is as weak now as it was then because, as someone stated above, there is no such thing as a golden age of hip-hop. Heavily relying on a single source proves it. 70.2.65.44 (talk) 21:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm amazed it survived that sort of attention in this state. But it's not quite true what you say, it's certainly a phrase people use and will be in media, but i've never seen it treated in depth, and there are widely different interpretations of what it is and why; none of which are yet as broad as this article's, which is clearly interested in documenting all rap in a certain time period. AMG has an eccentric paragraph about its genre, "golden age". Most writers call that the "new school" that emerged in New York with Run-DMC and LL. Needless to say, Wikipedia has another long, ahistorical, utterly mistaken article about what new school hip hop is. My recollection or perception is that most references to a "golden age of hip hop" refer to late new school, i.e. East Coast acts BDP, PE, Kane, through to ATCQ; characterizing it by attributes like period, quality, political engagement, experimentation and/or breadth of mind. Will be interesting to see if good sources bear that out. If there is to be an article here, it will have to be written along the lines of its characterization in good sources, not dreamed up by editors. 86.44.6.14 (talk) 02:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

No one watching this page? Where are all the guys who voted keep? 86.44.6.14 (talk) 04:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Sources

Basically there are no fantastic sources. Books don't talk about it. I reviewed media up to and including 2005 to avoid cross-contamination with this article, created 2006. One article, by Scott Mervis in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, February 15 2004, treats of it in depth. You can read it here. It covers exactly the same area as the new school hip hop article i wrote. I'm not sure what to do about that. Some kind of merge and redirect? I dunno. Passing references to a golden age abound, dates highlighted for fun:

Four years ago, DJ Ivory issued a challenge. He had long been a collector of rare American rap records, particularly those from the era commonly referred to as hip-hop's golden age - the late 1980's and early 90's. Jon Caramanica, "Hip-Hop's Raiders of the Lost Archives", New York Times, June 26 2005.

The first time Jin Auyeung heard LL Cool J's Mama Said Knock You Out, he fell in love. It was the mid-90's, the latter years of hip-hop's golden age. Ta-Nehisi Coates, "Just Another Quick-Witted, Egg-Roll-Joke-Making, Insult-Hurling Chinese-American Rapper" New York Times Magazine, November 21 2004.

"Because we started this list in 1985, we pretty much hit hip-hop in its golden age," [Sia Michels, editor-in-chief of Spin magazine] says. "There were so many important, groundbreaking albums coming out right about that time." Jake Coyle of Associated Press, "Spin magazine picks Radiohead CD as best", published in USA Today, June 19 2005.

"Sittin' in My Car" is vintage Slick Rick; bolstered by an elegant piano loop, Doug E. Fresh's beat-box breathalistics and Slick's crooning of Billy Stewart's "Sitting in the Park," the song invokes memories of rap's '86-'89 golden age, when it seemed that every new single reinvented the genre. Cheo H. Coker, "Slick Rick: Behind Bars", Rolling Stone, March 9 1995.

Hip-hop records also offered a musical history lesson through their use of samples. "There was that golden age of hip-hop in the early 90s when the Jungle Brothers made Straight Out the Jungle [ '88 ] and De La Soul made Three Feet High and Rising [ '89 ]," says Simmons [of The Chemical Brothers]. "They were an introduction to music. How else would you hear someone like the Jimmy Castor Bunch, or the Turtles? Those records were made by people who showed a great love of music." Will Hodgkinson, "Adventures on the wheels of steel", The Guardian, September 19 2003.

In a genre that regularly denigrates its heroes, KRS-One has enough battle scars to be considered the Neil Young of hip-hop: a raggedy, highly opinionated figure from rap's golden age who's able to hook up with hot producers (a DJ Premier to Young's Pearl Jam) who keep the music behind him as relevant as his spirit. Cheo H. Coker, "KRS-One: Krs-One", Rolling Stone, November 16, 1995.

And, almost uniquely for members of old-school rap royalty, Public Enemy's new material is no nostalgic throwback to hip hop's "golden age". Last year they formed an unlikely alliance with the vegan electronica artist Moby on the anti-war anthem MKLVFKWR (the message is in the missing vowels). Andrew Pettie, "'Where rap went wrong'", Daily Telegraph, August 11 2005.

Ask hip hop fans about the Jungle Brothers and they'll likely refer you to better-known groups De La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest. For folks old enough to remember rap's pre-gangsta days--the 1987-90 period some nostalgically call hip hop's golden age--the Jungle Brothers were the other act in the Native Tongues, a loose collection of young New York rappers (including De La, Tribe, and Queen Latifah) who shared a vision of what hip hop could and should be: colorful, dynamic, positive, smart yet fun, Afrocentric yet inclusive. Roni Sariq, "Crazy Wisdom Masters", City Pages, April 16 1997.

Mansbach's protagonist ... comes up in an all-white Boston suburb an unequivocal fan of the golden age of hip hop, the late '80s and early '90s when the form most capably fused the militancy of its Black Panther and Watts Prophets forebears with the wide-open cultural experimentalism of De La Soul and others. It was a time decidedly different from the bling-and-ice dominance of today's hip hop, one that seemed far removed from what Mansbach in his book calls today's "psychotic materialism." Scott Thill, "Whiteness Visible" AlterNet, May 6 2005.

Emerging from the late-'80s New York City underground rap scene, the Jungle Brothers inadvertently found themselves part of hip-hop's golden age. Their early albums, 1988's Straight Out the Jungle and 1989's Done by the Forces of Nature, are considered, along with efforts such as the Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique and De La Soul's Three Feet High and Rising, to be among the most influential hip-hop albums ... Of course, groups such as De La Soul and the recently reformed A Tribe Called Quest, plus rappers KRS-One and Big Daddy Kane, are part of the surviving vanguard of the golden age of hip-hop. Andrew Drever, "Jungle Brothers still untamed", The Age [Australia], October 24 2003.

... They profess to be "an artifact from '83/A pre-industry, pre-Puffy," in "B-Boy," and recite classic lines by the Fresh 3 MC's in "Soul." ... Soon Come, as Asheru tells us, is "something both you and your kids can understand"—a return to the days when hip-hop was banned from MTV and relegated to late-night radio and BET's catchall Video Vibrations. Unspoken Heard aren't the only ones paying homage to the spirit, if not the eclecticism, of hip-hop's '80s "golden age." AOI: Bionix, the new album from one of the legends from that era, De La Soul, finds Long Island's beloved curmudgeons shunning the role of elder statesmen in favor of slightly amused lectures to all whippersnappers aspiring to follow in their footsteps. On the title track Posdnous rebukes, "Unlike these underground MCs who rock for heads/We include the chest, throat, arms, and legs." Mosi Reeves, "Easy-Chair Rap", Village Voice, January 29th 2002.

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The golden age of hip-hop is at least a decade in the past, [ ?–c. 91 ] a time when the most artistically ambitious music--by performers such as Public Enemy, ... Greg Kot, "Hip-Hop Below the Mainstream", Los Angeles Times, September 19 2001

... and A Tribe Called Quest from the late '80s and early '90s, the so-called "golden age" of hip-hop. Lonnae O'Neal Parker, "U-Md. Senior Aaron McGruder's Edgy Hip-Hop Comic Gets Raves, but No Takers", Washington Post, Aug 20 1997.

The group, whose moniker implies that its members are direct descendants of golden-age rap acts like A Tribe Called Quest, includes MCs Big Pooh and Phonte, along with sonic architect 9th Wonder ... Author unknown,"Hip-Hop's Little Brother, Living Up to the Spin" The Washington Post March 3 2004.

Nas reminded many in the crowd of the Golden Age of New York hip-hop, when rappers from Eric B. & Rakim to the Ultramagnetic MCs wore clothes tailored by the hip Harlem haberdashery Dapper Dan's. Cheo Hodari Coker, "'It's a Beautiful Feeling'", Los Angeles Times, August 11, 1996.

... on Minor Threat's anthem "In My Eyes" to expressive rapper on a set of "golden age" hip-hop songs from Eric B & Rakim, Afrika Bambaataa and EPMD. ... Richard Cromelin, "Rage Against the Machine, 'Renegades'", Los Angeles Times, December 3, 2000.

Not only does it own a chunk of some of the best music from rap's golden age ('85-'89), ... Michael Corcoran, "Def Jam: this is how they do it", Austin American-Statesman, November 30 1995.

... For a few minutes we were back in the golden age, pre-Tupac, pre-Biggie. ... Chris Vognar, "Public Enemy No. 1 at Smokin' Grooves", Dallas Morning News, August 8 1998.

.86.44.6.14 (talk) 09:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

jdksa

NYT                   :  late 80's – early 90's
NYT                   :    ?    – mid nineties
Editor of Spin:    85  – ?                                           so many important, groundbreaking albums
Rolling Stone :    86 – 89                                        seemed every new single reinvented the genre                       KRS-One, (BDP)
Guardian          :    88 – early nineties                 eclectic sampling                                                                                  Jungle   Brothers, De La
Telegraph        :                                                                                                                                                                                 Public Enemy
City Pages        :   87 – 90                                       colorful, positive, smart, fun, Afrocentric, inclusive             JB, De La, ATCQ,  Latifah
Alternet            :  late 1980's and early 90's    fused militancy with wide-open cultural experimentalism, unmaterialistic        De La
Age                     :  late 1980's                                  influential                                                                       De La, ATCQ, KRS (BDP), Kane, Beasties
LA Times          :                                                                                                                                                           Eric B. & Rakim, EPMD
LA Times          :                                                                                                                                                           Eric B. & Rakim, Ultramagnetic MCs
Village Voice  :  80's                                                                                                                                                                      De La
LA Times          :   ?  – c. 91                                      artistically ambitious                                                                          PE
WPost                 :  the late '80s and early '90s                                                                                                                       ATCQ
WP                       :                                                                                                                                                                                ATCQ

Confused

I'm a bit confused as to what happened to the length of this article. It seems the new school article has kind of replaced this, yet I remember the new school article used to refer to post-1995 rap or so. I think one should be editted to sync up a bit better with the other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.134.37 (talk) 19:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

PLEASE remove DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.206.124.12 (talk) 22:17, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Heh. The article makes the point that acts you may find more palatable co-existed with other types of hip hop, all within the mainstream. Also you may not be aware that Jazzy Jeff is a widely respected figure in hip hop due to his heroics with the transform scratch. 86.44.24.228 (talk) 01:33, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The intro indicates that they do not belong here, and associates them with the term pop-rap instead. For inclusion in the list, you need a reliable source, as usual on Wikipedia. Just because they were active at the time and popular does not automatically make them relevant in the context of this article. That does not imply any kind of quality judgment, by the way. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:33, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Notable artists

Is anyone else just a little depressed that due to the rules of capitalization, the first artist listed in the "Notable artists" section is 2 Live Crew? MrBook (talk) 21:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Tupac

2pac is the greatest rapper EVER period so 2 me from 86-99 nd even a little bit of the early 00's maybe to 03 is golden because you have Run dmc and all the old 80s rappers biggie dre nas snoop PAC de la soul nd all the 90s rappers nd then in the new school you have the new generation nd even though these artist in the early 00's career and influence don't compare to the older rapper from 00-03 good music was still being made. And I feel that in 2009 were entering a new generation and age in hip hop were rappers aren't listening to record label and the rise of underground and mixtape rappers who are making good music just to make good music not in it for the money. That's why most people don't listen to the radio because no one wants to hear that pop fake hip hop now the rise of new real lyrical rappers is hear no more raps with dances. But anyway the golden age of rap is like the golden age of the NBA Jordan was the vest player and although I feel basketball talent is just as good now as it was in the 90s I feel like there was a undescribable magic to the NBA from 80-98 and even up to 02. The golden age of NBA is the 90s because that's when Jordan the most marketable player and greatest player( til Kobe) played so I feel like it the same in rap if tupac was around in the 90s and he was the greatest then that's ur golden period rappers to this day still quote him and try to imitate him. The golden age is like this from. 86-90 it starts 90-96/97 it peaks 98-02 it dies out —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.213.214 (talk) 01:03, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Tupac added

Also Do ur history rap was most lyrical, influenical, commercial (without selling out like it is now) and rap artist, labels, etc made the money sold the most records between 90-99. Because rap wasn't thought of as something that would last musical b4 1990 and it became more and sexual violence and all about partying without a cause after 99 and really after 03 by 07 it just went dumb with dances 4 everything and it was like pop. Hip hop was most relevant and economically successful at this time

I agree all the way. And I would say rap "died" in either 2004 or 2005 because people stopped being concuss and just started aiming at women,money, and dances.166.82.187.246 (talk) 23:36, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Tupac added

Also Do ur history rap was most lyrical, influenical, commercial (without selling out like it is now) and rap artist, labels, etc made the money sold the most records between 90-99. Because rap wasn't thought af as something that would last musical b4 1990 and it became more and sexual violence and all about partying without a cause after 99 and really after 03 by 07 it just went dumb with dances 4 everything and it was like pop. Hip hop was most relevant and economically successful at this time —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.213.214 (talk) 01:15, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Consider adding Nas

Nas should be considered for addition under the section "Notable Artists". About.com cites illmatic as the greatest hip-hop album of all time, Nas as the 4th best emcee of all time, and "the world is yours" as the 5th best rap song of all time.

Illmatic is also on "The Rolling Stone"'s 500 greatest albums of all time article.

Furthermore, Illmatic was released in 1994, so it coincides with the time period established for the golden age of hip-hop in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.205.217 (talk) 21:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

According to this article, the period is until about 1993. While he had "underground" beginnings in the late 80s until '94, I believe NAS commercially began during a "new wave/period" of rap and not during "The Golden Age of Hip-hop". Which leads me to the point, that I think this article should have 'of' between the words 'age' and 'hip' or either be called "Hip hop Golden Age". Just a thought. Another thing I noticed is that this article misses a lot of major acts and includes a lot of minor ones instead. For instance, regardless of public and media opinion or criticism, 3rd Bass and Vanilla Ice had more of an impact than some listed within the article -- and were more successful -- during this period. In fact, I think 2pac should be inclusive with Digital Underground instead who are also not mentioned, yet made a major contribution to hip hop at that time. 2pac's solo career had just recently began. To that point, so did The Notorious B.I.G.'s. Anyways, it's just something to think about. I may add them later with references if necessary, but for the most part, I just wanted to clear that up and "talk" about that observation. Thanks! 64.134.27.229 (talk) 13:51, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

according to the article, it extends up until 1999. your comment "I believe NAS commercially began during a "new wave/period" of rap and not during "The Golden Age of Hip-hop" seems to violate the NPOV rule. The hip-hop artists of the 90's such as Tupac, Nas, The Notorious B.I.G., Snoop dogg, and Dr.Dre had more of an impact on today's Hip-hop music, than any hip hop act from the 80's, except public enemy. so I think Nas should diffenitly be added. Oh wait he already is.--75.65.123.86 (talk) 13:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Tie-in with Hip Hop Culture

This article would benefit if it was placed in the larger narrative of hip hop culture. The late 80s is post-Breaksploitation era hip hop. At this time B-boying had lost much of its money-making potential, and the media was turning toward rap as the marketable element of hip hop. It was much easier to sell an album than a dancer, and rap promised more longevity as an investment. Many people within hip hop consider it to be a time when rap began to isolate itself from the rest of hip hop culture, just as B-boying had done in the early 80s. See Schloss, Joseph G. Foundation (New York: Oxford University), 31. Chang, Jeff. Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation (New York: Picador), 203-205. The Freshest Kids: A History of the B-boy, Dir. Israel, 2009. Film. Ossum86 (talk) 00:49, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

List of Golden Age includes too many artists and is too long

The list of Golden Age Rappers includes many who are clearly Old School and are even cited under the old school article as being old school. Also some of them are New School, but there are hardly any artists listed under New School. Some of these artists should be removed from Golden Age and place in either New School or Old School, or else there is no point in having a list of Golden Age. One may as well just call it a list of notable rappers. Apriv40dj (talk) 00:34, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

(8-7-'14)

I provided you with a source for ALL artists, thus far and actually lived through it... With the exception of the beatnuts, you have no latin artist, which contributed and influenced a whole generation of latino youth and made impacts on the culture, thats flat out racists and Im going to keep posting it up as long as you take it down! -Smoggy13

Hi Smoggy13. Where in the MTV source does it say that Kid Frost was a notable artist from the golden age? Secondly, the other websites that you added are on the top hip hop songs from the golden age ... not top artists. Also, these are from user-submitted blogs, and according to reliable sources, blogs aren't adequate. To say "... you have no latin artist [...] thats flat out racists" is utterly asinine. Pulling the race card in situations like this is a brainless cop-out for someone in desperate need of an argument. The notable artists section isn't for people to list their favorites, or artists whom they feel were important - it's for artists who were at the forefront of this era (backed up by reliable sources). If you're gonna edit war and "keep posting it up as long as (I) take it down", then Wikipedia administrators will get involved and I'll have to request a lock on this page. Either get reliable sources, or don't add material ... it's very simple. --Blastmaster11 (talk) 23:10, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Do Your homework of when kid frost, among the others rappers I have listed, were active and blew up to a major latin audience around the country and then tell me... what era there music was from? When were they active from? The golden Era as its described right here in this section states... "everyone offered something innovative, like every new single re invented the genre" There is a genre called Chicano and Latin which does have a large fan base and following, and every single artists I listed Has pioneered therefore contributing a starting role into the culture. If you know anything about rap, hip hop in general... You'd know kid frost Had a major impact amongst the west coast/gangster rap... and his hit "La Raza" is considered to be one of the first successful latino rap songs and YES a Lighter Shade Of Brown did infact have the first Platinum selling single with "On a Sunday Afternoon", YES before cypress hill and beanuts which you both have listen...So do you research on the genre and follow your sources a little more accurately cause who knows maybe you might you might actually know what your talking about in a future conversation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smoggy13 (talk • contribs) 02:52, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

So because these artists "blew up to a major latin audience around the country" that makes them notable for golden age hip hop as a whole ... really? Just because they were popular within the confines of Latin communities, doesn't make them notable for the entire hip hop community from a universal standpoint. Also, just because they were active during this era, doesn't make them notable, like groups such as Public Enemy or De La Soul. Finally, there's no need to get all emotional here and state that I "know nothing about hip hop in general", simply because I'm reverting your edits which have no reliable sources. As I mentioned earlier - The notable artists section isn't for people to list their favorites, or artists whom they feel were important - it's for artists who were at the FOREFRONT of this era (backed up by reliable sources). So actually, who knows, maybe if you do your homework on this era from an un-biased standpoint, then you yourself might actually know what you're talking about in a future conversation. --Blastmaster11 (talk) 17:53, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Smoggy13, where are you getting this information from? Is there some relevant literature or website that discusses the artists you're bringing up as part of hip hop's golden age? The burden is on you to verify the information you're arguing to be included (WP:PROVEIT). Dan56 (talk) 05:15, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Golden Age =

How can you even dare claim that wu tang clan and snoop dog were a part of the golden era of hip hop yet not even acknowledged the martyrs ? 2pac , the Notorious B.I.G. ? or the duo Mobb Deep, I truly am disgusted that white people like you have the courage to have a say who was a part of our artform. Sources? EVERY HIP HOP ARTIST AND FAN KNOWS ABOUT THESE PEOPLE AND THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE ART. i thought wikipedia was the peoples encyclopedia, why is it right to be obliged to use sources from WHITE OLD MEN who know nothing about our art other than to exploit our youth and make money off of their stories and music. I truly hope you aren't white, I am not a racist but if you are please quit reverting my changes , your people have no say in this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.181.184.118 (talk) 06:30, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Lol, good grief! I didn't "dare claim that wu tang clan and snoop dog were a part of the golden era of hip hop" ... Tony Green from the ECW Press did (as the source clearly states). Heck, I didn't even add that material. At Wikipedia we use reliable sources, so since "the martyrs 2pac, the Notorious B.I.G., and the duo Mobb Deep" are notable figures DURING THIS ERA, as you say they are, then you should be able to find a reliable source in no time which explicitly backs this. By the way, I'm having a good laugh at the fact that you somehow think I'm an "old white man" simply because I'm reverting un-sourced edits? Lol, where are you getting this from?--Blastmaster11 (talk) 00:16, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

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