Talk:Girl Scout Cookies

Updated changes proposed April 18

I wanted to take my original proposed changes from the section above and present them again here, having changed them based on the feedback I’ve gotten from the other involved editors. I'd also like to add some historical images to the article. @North8000, Chrisvls, and Btphelps: I’d appreciate any additional feedback or comments any of you might have.

#1

Original text: Each Girl Scout regional council decides which licensed baking company to use for cookie sales in that council, thus determining which varieties are available in the area covered by the council.

Girl Scouts sell cookies to relatives, friends, neighbors, and others in their town or city. In recent years, because of safety concerns, an increased emphasis has been placed on cookie booths, where girls sell from tables in public areas under the supervision of adult troop leaders, rather than door-to-door. Many councils offer the option for customers to sponsor boxes of cookies to be sent to U.S. servicemen and women. Cookies are also available online.

Proposed text: Girl Scouts sell cookies to relatives, friends, neighbors, and others in their town or city. Some councils offer the option for customers to sponsor boxes of cookies sent to U.S. servicemen and women. The Girl Scout organization asks that members adhere to strict safety guidelines, including the cookie sale. For example, Girl Scouts, depending on their age, must be accompanied or supervised by an adult when selling Girl Scout Cookies and must always use the buddy system. Girl Scouts also sell cookies through the Digital Cookie platform. Each Girl Scout council decides which licensed baking company to use for cookie sales in that council, thus determining which varieties are available in the area covered by the council. Each of the Girl Scout councils sets its own price based on its needs and knowledge of the local market.

Reason: The way the safety concerns content was previously written wasn’t supported by a secondary source and implied a causal relationship between safety concerns and an increase in booth sales. The proposed version gives a summary of the actual safety guidelines.

FYI, this article may interest other editors: Boy Scouts Are Just Scouts Now, and That’s Making Girl Scouts Mad. — btphelps ^{(talk to me) (what I've done)} 03:46, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

@Btphelps: Thanks for sharing that news article. Where do you think this fits in the Girl Scouts of the USA Wikipedia article? Or maybe can you help me with what content in the news article you've shared is specifically relevant to the petition above? If you can help me understand where you're coming from, I'm open to hearing how that news article helps the Wikipedia reader understand the Girl Scouts Cookie Program.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 16:06, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

I think BTPhelps said it was more of a "of possible interest" North8000 (talk) 23:42, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

@North8000: thanks for the clarification. Do you or @Btphelps: have any feedback on my proposed version of the text?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 01:19, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Looks fine to me except....use of their internal jargon "Digital Cookie Platform" (with no explanation) as the core statement makes that sentence uninformative at best. To keep things move i'm going to put it in without that sentence and you / we can edit from there or, anyone please revert me if they do not agree. North8000 (talk) 11:28, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I did that. North8000 (talk) 11:39, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

@North8000: thanks for making the update. I can see where “platform” strays into jargon, especially without any context. I do think it’s important information to include though, as previously sales were done door-to-door or via a booth. How would feel about the following version: "As of 2015, Girl Scouts can also sell cookies online through the Digital Cookie mobile app."--FacultiesIntact (talk) 19:45, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

IMO that sounds better. I guess you hit a couple of my pet peeves with the previous one.  :-) it's not that it's jargon, it's that it's the internal jargon unique to the organization, and it is the basis of the main statement in the sentence.  :-) North8000 (talk) 03:22, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

@North8000: I can definitely see where you're coming from, and I'm glad we could work that out. Would you mind making the update?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 23:35, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Happy to. I put it in. North8000 (talk) 11:17, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

#2

Original text: Elizabeth Brinton, also known as the "Cookie Queen", sold a record 18,000 boxes of cookies in a single sales season, and more than 100,000 boxes in her time as a girl scout. She is known for selling cookies to sitting president Ronald Reagan. Her record held for more than twenty-nine years, until Katie Francis, 12, sold 18,107 boxes in 2014. In 2017, Charlotte McCourt, a girl scout from New Jersey, sold over 25,000 boxes of cookies, breaking the record.

Proposed text: Elizabeth Brinton, also known as the "Cookie Queen", sold a record 18,000 boxes of cookies in a single sales season, and more than 100,000 boxes in her time as a Girl Scout. Her record held for more than 29 years, until Katie Francis, 12, sold 18,107 boxes in 2014. In 2017, Charlotte McCourt, a girl scout from New Jersey, sold over 25,000 boxes of cookies, breaking the record.

Reason: Brinton is not notable for selling cookies to Reagan, but for holding the cookie sales record. In the context of this article, focused on the cookies themselves, it distracts from the primary subject.

IMO there's no reason to remove the "sold to Reagan" part, and I disagree with the rationales given. First there is no notability requirement for inclusion of content in articles. Second, we do guide ourselves by coverage in sources, and the Reagan sale apparently was prominent in sources. I do think that degree of relevance is important, and feel that such is satisfied for the actual topic of the article (which is broader than just the cookies themselves) IMO it is also an interesting addition that the #1 seller also sold cookies to the president. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:21, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

#3

Original text: Also, award badges exist for sales: Cookie Count, Smart Cookie, The Cookie Connection, Cookie Biz, and Cookies & Dough.

Proposed text: Also, award badges exist for sales: Talk It Up, Cookie CEO, P&L, and Customer Loyalty.

Reason: The current list of badges is outdated. Chrisvls helped source this new list.

I put this in. Looks like a slam dunk sourced correction of what is now a factual error. Anybody please revert if you do not agree. North8000 (talk) 02:08, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

#4

I’d also like to propose adding File:1963 Girl Scouts and cookies.tiff to the Sales section alongside the image of a girl selling cookies in 2013, and File:Girl Scout Brownies fresh cookies.tiff and File:Girl Scout Shortbread Cookie Box, circa 1960.jpg to the history section. Are there any objections to me adding the images directly?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 21:19, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

My opinion is that you should put it in. North8000 (talk) 02:09, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

@North8000: thanks again for all the help! I went ahead and added the images, as well as fixed some minor typos, specifically about referring to the organization in a consistent manner. I truly appreciate all the effort that you've put into helping improve this article.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 22:20, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

References

Changes proposed May 10

In reviewing the current version of the article, I noticed a few minor (but important) things that could be corrected in the lead, Sales, and Production sections, respectively.

#1

Original text: These skills are reinforced with scouting badges, such as "Cookie CEO."

Proposed text: These skills are reinforced with Girl Scout badges, such as "Cookie CEO."

Reason: The term “scouting” can apply to any number of other scouting organizations, so we should use a more specific term to avoid any potential confusion.

Done North8000 (talk) 23:44, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

#2

Original text: Also, award badges exist for sales: Talk It Up, Cookie CEO, P&L, and Customer Loyalty.

Proposed text: Also, award badges exist for sales, including Talk It Up, Cookie CEO, P&L, and Customer Loyalty.

Reason: There are more than the four badges listed, and the statement should be qualified to mitigate any chance of the reader thinking that the relevant badges are limited to these four.

Done. North8000 (talk) 23:46, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

#3

Original text: Operation Thin Mint is a program by the Girl Scouts of the USA, led by Girls Scouts from the San Diego-Imperial Council, to provide military members with donated cookies.

Proposed text: Operation Thin Mint is a program led by Girl Scouts from the San Diego Council, to provide military members with donated cookies.

Reason: The program is not a national program, but one developed and led specifically by Girl Scouts from San Diego. Additionally, the San Diego-Imperial Council link points to a Boy Scouts council article, rather than correctly pointing to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_in_California#Girl_Scouts_San_Diego.

Done North8000 (talk) 23:50, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Does anyone have a minute to take a look and review these changes? @North8000: you've been a huge help with this already. Do you have any more time to take a look? Any comments or feedback are always appreciated.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 21:58, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Happy to. I put them all in......looked like slam dunk clear cut. North8000 (talk) 23:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Adding the number of regional councils

Would someone mind adding the actual number of councils to the article. The lead paragraph for the article mentions that each regional council sets their own prices, but doesn't give any context into how many councils there actually are.

• Original text: Cookie sales are organized by regional Girl Scout councils who select one of two national bakeries to buy cookies from.
• Proposed text: Cookie sales are organized by 112 regional Girl Scout councils who select one of two national bakeries to buy cookies from.
• Reason: By listing the number of Girl Scout councils, the reader is given greater context into the size of the regions as well as into the potential variance in pricing between councils.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 16:49, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

References

I couldn't find the number of councils at the link. Could you point me to it or possibly make the link more specific? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:11, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

@North8000: In the Vox link it's about halfway down, with the line "Each regional council — there are 112, nationwide — chooses which baker to contract with, and by extension, which version of Thin Mints you get." In the Journal Sentinel article it's in the third paragraph, talking about the reduction of the number of councils: "The Girl Scouts of Manitou Council was the only one nationwide to challenge a 2005 plan meant to reduce the number of councils from more than 300 to 112". Hope that helps!--FacultiesIntact (talk) 18:42, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

OK, it threw me because you had a different cite by the number. I'll change. North8000 (talk) 20:26, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

I'll put it in as is, the cite is just a few words later. North8000 (talk) 20:37, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Discontinued Oreo-like chocolate and vanilla sandwich cookies

Long ago my favorite Girl Scout Cookies by far (when everybody else loved Thin Mints) were mixed chocolate and vanilla sandwich cookies. They were similar to Oreos and Golden Oreos, and a box contained an equal number of each flavor. The cookie part was molded in the shape of the then-current Girl Scouts logo. They are not listed among the discontinued varieties, but they definitely, absolutely, unequivocally WERE available for many years—through the 1960s and 1970s at least—because I bought and enjoyed dozens of boxes of them and grieved deeply when I discovered that they had been discontinued. I didn't add them to the article because I don't remember what their official name was, but maybe someone else remembers. — 8.9.94.16 (talk) 22:28, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

New Girl Scout cookie for 2021 season

There's a new Girl Scout cookie in 2021. It's called Toast-Yay! under ABC Bakers. Janlanuzo (talk) 00:00, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

"Knockoff" section?

It seems major retailers and commercial bakers have gotten into the act, making cookies similar to the ones by GSA available year-round. Most notoriously is Walmart, under their Great Value brand. There have been articles and blog posts where (in some cases, blind) taste tests have been conducted, some informally by people on their own. Could something like this fit under a "Controversy" subheading (if, of course, one could stomach using the terms "girl scout" and "controversy" in the same article)? Or "Knockoffs"? Not everyone would like such a section, of course, but if completeness is part of the point of Wikipedia, items of cultural significance do belong. Or, for those wanting to protect the GSA, perhaps a separate article, with a crosslink ("See Also") to a new article fully discussing this development in recent years? Wikigameshow (talk) 05:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

I think that, for now, having it in this article makes a lot of sense. Controversy sections are somewhat discouraged and "knockoff" is perhaps too negative unless enough reliable sources use that phrase. Copy-cat or generic (see generic brand for example) could work. Skynxnex (talk) 18:29, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Agree with Skynxnex on all points. North8000 (talk) 22:06, 13 December 2023 (UTC)