Talk:Germanisation of the Province of Posen

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Name[edit]

I am not sure if "Germanisation of Posen" is the best name, as it can suggests the article concerns the history of the town of Posen (Poznań) only. In fact we are talking about Province of Posen, which roughtly corresponds to the Greater Poland (Wielkpolska) region. I think this article should be renamed to Germanisation of Province of Posen or Germanisation of Greater Poland. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 16:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Franco-Prussian war[edit]

Re [1]. Does this source link the FP war to the Germanization of the province? If not, then this is WP:SYNTH.Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:38, 19 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Clark continues right after his description of the pro-French sympathies in Posen and Bismarck's reaction:
"Bismarck's first target was the Polish clergy whose interests he had earlier so assiduously defended. (...) Poland thus became the launching pad for Prussia's Kulturkampf..."
This is not OR, this isn't SYNTH, it's an evident and important context as clearly described by Clark. HerkusMonte (talk) 14:45, 20 May 2014 (UTC)\[reply]
It is is evident by even the quote you gave here, that what you wrote in the text is not supported by the source and you are engaging in SYNTH and OR. In any case I have added a highly reliable source from UN legal experts containing information that Bismarck already in 1861 advocated physical genocide of Polish people.MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:47, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Germanization of Polish territories started well before the war, and symphathy for French was result of hope that racist discrimination will end, putting hope of Poles that they will stop being treated like animals to be exterminated(as Bismarck stated) as reason for their discrimination is extreme POV. In any case Germanization started well before the war, so it wasn't the reason.

Also note that Bismarck wrote that Poles are animals that should be exterminated already in 1861-years before the warMyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:47, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Clark is pretty clear about the correlation of the illoyality of 1870/71 and Bismarck's struggle against the Catholic Church, the Poles and the Kulturkampf in general. Your complaints are rather inexplicable. On the other hand your additions are not even closely supported by the source [2] which is a collection of documents produced between 1946 and 1948 as explained in the book's Reader's Guide. Actually it's the protocol of a meeting of the "Committee of the Progressive Development of International Law and its Codification" on June 13, 1947 including a statment by Dr. Alexander Bramson, Poland's representative at that meeting. That these protocols were – decades later - published by the UN is completely irrelevant. To use Bramson, whose qualification and relevance remains nebulous, and pretend it's the view of a modern UN official – a remarkable way to (mis-)interprete a source.
Regarding Hajo Holborn's "History of Modern Germany": Unfortunately you omitted to mention a pagenumber, all I could find is a quotation of a letter written in 1861 [3] It's a quotation – a WP:Primary source, and your private interpretation of Bismarck's letter is what we call WP:Original Research. Thus I removed the irrelevant statement of Mr. Bramson, rewrote Holborn's part and added a modern scholarly view (Christopher Clark). Please do not remove Clark again. HerkusMonte (talk) 14:52, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bramson is higly relavant, and I have numerous other sources as well which will be added. You are pursuing POV and SYNT as well as Original Reseach.MyMoloboaccount (talk) 16:15, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm using Christopher Clark's book, a modern, well-known historian. Mr. Bramson has what kind of qualification exactly? You could also at least try to read the source, which is online and linked before you spray "citation needed" tags around. HerkusMonte (talk) 17:41, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Clark is pretty clear about the correlation of the illoyality of 1870/71"-wait, are you claiming that Poles were supposed to be loyal to state that invaded their country, occupied their territory, tried to eradicate their culture and language and replace them with Germans and tortured those who tried to resist?MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:01, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Germanisation of the Province of Posen[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Germanisation of the Province of Posen's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Chwalba":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 17:21, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Much of this article is unproven/uncorroborated[edit]

Under "Colonization and discrimination in Polish territories by Prussia till 1806" and "Colonization and discrimination by Prussia till 1848", a lot of claims are made about what, for example, Frederick the Great "hoped" and who he "despised" or what a supposed "enemy of Poles" called for. Where such strong language is used, citations are a must. Another thing is that the English used is not quite up to native speaker standard. It seems that much of the article was written by a staunch Polish nationalist. The entire article should be thoroughly reviewed IMO, and I have taken a first step. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magic77wand (talk • contribs) 16:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Some troll has put the rubbish about the supposedly falsified 1910 census back in. To this day it is commonplace in democratic countries' censuses to recognise soldiers where they live, ie are stationed. This is no falsification. Some of the stationed Prussian soldiers will have been Polish-speaking anyway. Nothing we can do, this page has been hijacked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.61.212.198 (talk) 14:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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