Talk:George Washington Carver/Archive 5

Archive 1

←

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Semi-protected edit request on 11 January 2018

42.111.141.96 (talk) 14:47, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
Please request your change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:24, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 January 2018

Hardy Corey Gamer (talk) 00:25, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: @Hardy Corey Gamer: Please describe the specific changes you want to make. Anon126 (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 01:39, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Extant writings

I have been unable to find an online copy of Carver's Master's thesis, and neither could I find more than the titles of his bulletins from his time in Tuskegee. Are there copies of these still in existence? If so, where can they be found?CountMacula (talk) 04:41, 19 February 2015 (UTC)CountMacula (talk) 10:31, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2018

Why do you have a clearly inflammatory section (citing only an unverified source) that GWC was castrated? This is the lowest, meanest gossip, and on top of that, is for a man, an insult. Please remove such racist garbage from this article. 24.32.9.114 (talk) 18:12, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. If there is something that is wrong or inaccurate in the article this is a good place to discuss it. If you find a reliable source please submit another edit request asking for the specific information you would like to see removed and what you would like to possibly replace it. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 15:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2018

24.184.97.255 (talk) 22:31, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 22:47, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2019

Sundavi (talk) 21:27, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Please remove this line below, which is libel against the very core belief system of George Washington Carver: "In her 2015 biography, Christina Vella reviews his relationships and suggests that Carver was bisexual and constrained by mores of his historic period."

The above line conflicts and defames the character of George Washington Carver, as a man of the Bible and its orthodox beliefs that he practiced.

References

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Since the source is cited, I see no clear reason within Wikipedia policy to remove it from the article at this point. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 21:41, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2019

George Washington Carver was born on January 1, 1864. You should add that to the information. Thanks! 73.125.211.250 (talk) 02:16, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. As stated in the first two notes, his birth date is not definite; it was sometime in the 1860s. However, if you have a reliable source that says that he was definitely born on January 1, 1864, please link to it and I'd be happy to evaluate it. Thanks, --SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 17:40, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2019

"His article, "A Boy Who Was Traded for a Horse" (1932), in The American Magazine, and its 1937 reprint in Reader's Digest, contributed to this myth about Carver's influence. Other popular media tended to exaggerate Carver's impact on the peanut industry.[33]" should be removed for POV if citations cannot be provided to substantiate that it was a myth. The claim being called a myth (i.e. that Carver was largely responsible for the growth of the peanut industry) is sourced. The citation for "Other popular media tended to exaggerate Carver's impact..." does not support the claim that the Carver's role was exaggerated, but instead seems to be offered as an example of that exaggeration.

"His article, "A Boy Who Was Traded for a Horse" (1932), in The American Magazine..." should be made an inline citation for the previous statement. Tospik (talk) 02:16, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 16:35, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Category identified him as a LGBT people, but there is no mention of him belonging to LGBT community. Any source to confirm this? --Gnosis (talk) 07:56, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

In her 2015 biography, Christina Vella reviews his relationships and suggests that Carver was bisexual and constrained by mores of his historic period.[41]

This sentence does not need to be in this article. It is absolutely a baseless claim written in 2015! Who knows, who cares! This should be removed immediately. His sexual preferences, if true, do not need to be included in such an important article. I have taught and read about Dr. George Washington Carver and this is false.

The Vella biography was published by the Louisiana State University Press and received good reviews. What is your basis for criticizing Vella's work? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:47, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

What encyclopedic content/resource was verified to suggest this statement? Note, her book is from 2015 where would these verifiable sources be found? I have studied and taught about this great man for years, and was shocked to see this notation on Wikipedia. This sentence should be eliminated because it serves no point in the discussion of such a dynamic scientist unless there are reliable resources to back up Vella's claim. If unverified, then it is gratuitous. Aquatictomato (talk) 22:30, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Uh well I mean historians of the present day do find out stuff. That's what historians do. Also, there's no need to be shocked, being gay or bisexual is fine. It's not like its a slur or something.

On the other hand, it is my experience that historians do seek out new interpretations and new angles on things. Of course they do, that's their job; if they're just to going to repeat what's already been said, they're not proper historians. It is also how they get ahead in their profession, by discovering new aspects of things thru research and analysis. But in doing this, they do overreach sometimes. If you become and expert in George Washington Carver but don't discover anything new to say about him, its kind of a letdown and actually not a great look on your resume tbh. So you want to be careful with this sort of revisionist history.

So let's see... Christina Vella has an article here, she was a real historian. Adjunct professor (not full professor I guess) at Tulane (which is a legit top school), altho her expertise was not Carver and she apparently just decided to write a book about him... the book was reviewed by NBC News, which is a marker of notability... All in all, Vella seems plenty qualified and notable enough to quote.

I can't read the book, but the NBC review says

There were love affairs, too, including a ten-year obsession that all but shattered Carver. When he was 60 and known everywhere, he fell helplessly in love with a 23-year-old white evangelizer, Jim Hardwick.... During the same period, one of Carver’s close women friends was also in love with Jim...

This seems pretty specific. It's not like they're saying "Well, some of the things that he said or wrote, if you take them a certain way, you maybe can see how he might of have been gay". These are specific specific actual people here. Pretty sure that Vella didn't just make this up, as she couldn't have gotten away with that probably. She's a professional historian so we kind of have to figure that her facts, at least, are probably mostly right.

On the other hand, books are not great sources because they aren't independently fact checked. For this reason I wouldn't be comfortable saying "Carver was bisexual and constrained by mores of his historic period" in our own voice. But "In her 2015 biography, Christina Vella reviews his relationships and suggests that Carver was bisexual and constrained by mores of his historic period", that's fine. We're not saying its true, we're just reporting what a notable historian said after researching the matter. Leave it in. Herostratus (talk) 01:27, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Honors/School Missing - 5 January 2020

I went to this elementary school for 4th and 5th grade in the 1970's and its missing from your article.

George_Washington_Carver_High_School_(Baytown,_Texas)

George Washington Carver Elementary - GCCISD — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcovtxs (talk • contribs) 06:32, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2020

No proof besides someones so called relationships gathered information that George Washington Carver was bisexual. This is disrespectful to speak on someone's personal life when you have no proof, no admitted acknowledgement from him in writings. This statement is not facts and it should be omitted. A writer's guess or suspensions is not proof. TruthBtold55 (talk) 22:02, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 23:12, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2020

Add to his relationships "According to the book George Washington Carver: Scientist & Symbol (1982) written by author Linda O. McMurry, "Rumors of his homosexuality persist but are undocumented. The letters that most seem to confirm the rumors were written to white teenage boys, and Carver was smart enough not to risk a homosexual relationship with them in Black Belt Alabama."" 194.247.60.2 (talk) 00:57, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Interstellarity (talk) 15:32, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Change

"Austin Curtis - Scientist successor to Dr. Carver", cartoon by C.H. Alston

Carver never married. At age 40, he began a courtship with Sarah L. Hunt, an elementary school teacher and the sister-in-law of Warren Logan, Treasurer of Tuskegee Institute. This lasted three years until she took a teaching job in California. In her 2015 biography, Christina Vella reviews his relationships and suggests that Carver was bisexual and constrained by mores of his historic period. to

"Austin Curtis - Scientist successor to Dr. Carver", cartoon by C.H. Alston

Carver never married. At age 40, he began a courtship with Sarah L. Hunt, an elementary school teacher and the sister-in-law of Warren Logan, Treasurer of Tuskegee Institute. This lasted three years until she took a teaching job in California. In her 2015 biography, Christina Vella reviews his relationships and suggests that Carver was bisexual and constrained by mores of his historic period. According to the book George Washington Carver: Scientist & Symbol (1982) written by author Linda O. McMurry, "Rumors of his homosexuality persist but are undocumented. The letters that most seem to confirm the rumors were written to white teenage boys, and Carver was smart enough not to risk a homosexual relationship with them in Black Belt Alabama. 194.247.60.2 (talk)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2020

Let's try to be more honest about the way black men have been treated in this country. Please include the following information:

"Carver was most likely castrated around the age of 11, as black men were seen as threatening to white girls and women. Moses Carver was have worried about George growing up in the same house as his wife and daughter, and this was the agreed upon solution."

SOURCE: https://www.caribdirect.com/black-scientist-george-washington-carver-was-castrated-black-histor/ 100.37.91.60 (talk) 18:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. Add it where? And in any case, this source doesn't appear particularly reliable. Presenting this as fact would be inappropriate without multiple high quality sources confirming it, especially when even the source admits to a certain level of speculation on the matter. Moreover, re: "Let's try to be more honest about the way black men have been treated in this country.", please see WP:RGW. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 19:04, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

The castration theory is already mention in the Personal Life section. – Thjarkur (talk) 19:22, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2020

The first two sentences are pretty short. Could you merge them? End result should be "George Washington Carver (1860s[1][2] – January 5, 1943) was an American agricultural scientist and inventor who promoted alternative crops to cotton and methods to prevent soil depletion." 208.95.49.53 (talk) 20:25, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done Interstellarity (talk) 12:20, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2020 (2)

Change x When he was 70, Carver established a friendship and research partnership with the scientist Austin W. Curtis, Jr. This young black man, a graduate of Cornell University, had some teaching experience before coming to Tuskegee. Carver bequeathed to Curtis his royalties from an authorized 1943 biography by Rackham Holt.[44]

To y When he was 70, Carver established research with the scientist Austin W. Curtis, Jr. This black man, a graduate of Cornell University, had some teaching experience before coming to Tuskegee. Carver, a mind crafter to Curtis was impressed and left royalties from an authorized 1943 as he was as he was not only Dr. Carver’s most trusted assistant but caregiver for the last eight years of Carver’s life.Zbrconcern (talk) Zbrconcern (talk) 05:06, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. @Zbrconcern. Seagull123 Φ 17:11, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

George washington carver was a minecrafter he loved minecraft and your 4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3001:1400:C00:3832:A55F:125A:D6F7 (talk) 18:16, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2020

His slave master castrated him. Please Remove references to sexuality. Let us come to the realization of the evils of slavery and stop Making excuses. Please delete below line references of sexuality of a castrated man which is scientifically unwarranted.Zbrconcern (talk) 13:07, 3 December 2020 (UTC) “In her 2015 biography, Christina Vella reviews his relationships and suggests that Carver was bisexual and constrained by mores of his historic period.[43]”. Please remove. Zbrconcern (talk) 03:59, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. @Zbrconcern. Seagull123 Φ 17:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2021

Recommended citation for gravestone epitaph: https://www.samford.edu/alabama-mens-hall-of-fame/inductees/Carver.html#:~:text=Carver%20was%20buried%20in%20Tuskegee,Famous%20Americans%20Series%20in%201948. Dfeiertag (talk) 15:27, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

To editor Dfeiertag:  done, and thank you very much! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 22:03, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Voice pitch section and castration

This seems very strange, and it only quotes a single author. I can't say how credible it is, but it probably bears further scrutiny. I would also note that McMurray has made a medical error; people like the European castrati singers actually had above-average height.--Pharos (talk) 16:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I wrote a new paragraph in the "Voice pitch" section, having found a new source for the castration rumor. See if this makes enough sense at least to be recognized as a controversy/uncertainty about Carver. Castration was common in slave systems in other countries, like China and Turkey. We can make a internal Wiki link to "Eunuchs" if that would be helpful. Tuckerlieberman (talk) 04:01, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Flack and Pellegrino did not assert that Carver had been castrated. Their book is an edited collection that contains a paper by Leonard Harris. Harris's chapter "Autonomy under duress" has been reprinted in A Philosophy of Struggle: The Leonard Harris Reader New York: 2020, Bloomsbury Academic, pp 99-112. Harris constructs several thought experiments in this paper to examine relationships between bioethical concepts of autonomy and racism. Each thought experiment is linked to an apocryphal physician, Dr. Goodbody, Dr. Death, etc. He discusses a "Dr. Dick" who castrates George Washington Carver out of kindness and consideration for Carver's interests, and with his nominal consent. Although the paper asserts that Dr. Dick performed a castration on Carver, this should not be read literally. Much of Harris's other work discusses castration and emasculation as a general feature of racism. Harris probably thought that Carver had been castrated, but his paper does not provide any historical evidence or citation of other sources that would support this. Carver was certainly NOT castrated by a "Dr. Dick", as other Internet sources now suggest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomp649 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

"George washington carter" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect George washington carter. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 9#George washington carter until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm _Talk 05:21, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

--73.231.31.29 (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2021

MrsSharonNorwoodLewis (talk) 07:32, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Carver's estate was left to his great great great granddaughter, Sharon Norwood-Lewis

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please also explain why this is noteworthy for inclusion in the article; see WP:NOTEVERYTHING. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 13:56, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

peanut soup baby i love this guy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.122.90.63 (talk) 17:35, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2022

The article contains an ad for an organic farm called "the Rodale Institute." It's the seven paragraphs at the end of the "Life While Famous" section. I think it should be deleted. 98.160.238.48 (talk) 03:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: I removed the prose about the rodale institute. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:57, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2021 and 9 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Studentuser65210. Peer reviewers: Petunialovescake1.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:17, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Source does not corroborate claim

With regard to this paragraph:

> Despite Carver's pertinent efforts, he still struggled with racism in the deep south. There was a letter that Carver had written when he was working to reform the lands, where he had described how he was lynched. Carver used an analogy “Old Satan” in the letter to describe who had lynched him. Carver mentions Blease, and how he was promoting a very racist environment and was extremely anti-black, and was the “Old Satan”. Blease worked in the state government, and he had the power to influence how the citizens of that state viewed black people. He let his opinions of racism penetrate into the states, and further his racist agenda.

In the above paragraph the following two sources are referenced: "Forget peanuts. George Washington Carver's environmental legacy is the real story". Fix. 2021-02-12. Retrieved 2021-11-24.

Wilson, Ron; Taylor, Kay Ann (2020-03-26). "The Quest for Education: Racism, Paradox, and Interest Convergence in the Life of George Washington Carver". Educational Considerations. 45 (2). doi:10.4148/0146-9282.2188. ISSN 0146-9282. S2CID 216190391. https://newprairiepress.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2188&context=edconsiderations

Both of the above sources makes no reference to an incident where we was lynched nor does it use the words "Old Satan". After a cursory search for lynching and "Old Satan", I could not find a reference to an incident where Carve was lynched outside of this Wikipedia article. Perhaps this paragraph should have the portion regarding lynching removed until a better source can be found.

Agreed and I deleted it. Rjensen (talk) 04:49, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Extraneous Joe Biden reference

Section: 'Life while famous' ends with the note "President Biden realized the success of Permaculture as described by Carver, and is now using it in sustainable agriculture in his climate policy." Of notable events in the practice of Permaculture other than the work of Carver, this is the only mentioned. Is this the most relevant addition, considering it concerns current politics and the subject is of historic regard? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 卵ウィキ (talk • contribs) 02:17, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

An ip editor removed it this edit. I agree with you two. Invasive Spices (talk) 22 December 2022 (UTC)

No citation

Years ago a paragraph was inserted without a citation https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=107574552. It remains today on the page as

In 1919, Carver wrote to a peanut company about the potential he saw for peanut milk. Both he and the peanut industry seemed unaware that in 1917 William Melhuish had secured US 1243855, issued 1917-10-23 for a milk substitute made from peanuts and soybeans.[improper synthesis?]

The United Peanut Associations of America invited Carver to speak at their 1920 convention. He discussed "The Possibilities of the Peanut" and exhibited 145 peanut products.[39]

I could not find anything online that supports the concept of "writing to a peanut company", nor anything about Carver being "unaware" of some patent (which is most likely an imagined concept if you think about it).

I did, however, locate an article published in 2020 that appears to have been copied verbatim from Wikipedia to https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/science-and-medicine/4317/ and which was recently added as the citation #39 to the paragraph it had been copied from.

Since it seems made up, I think the first paragraph should be removed unless someone can find a valid reference. The following statement about th 1920 convention and the preceding segment about the Royal Society should also get a citations if they are true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grorp (talk • contribs) 03:56, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Three months has passed and no one has addressed this issue. Removing it as uncited. Grorp (talk) 02:25, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Homosexuality

Robert Staples, Exploring Black Sexuality (2006), page 66. Linda O. McMurry, George Washington Carver: Scientist & Symbol (1982), page 245, takes a more cautious stance, "Rumors of his homosexuality persist but are undocumented. The letters that most seem to confirm the rumors were written to white teenage boys, and Carver was smart enough not to risk a homosexual relationship with them in Black Belt Alabama." Lmharding (talk) 07:33, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2022

Remove statement stating George Washington Carver designed Tuskegee Cooperative Extension based on Iowa State Extension, and correct to state:

George Washington Carver established the first Cooperative Extension System in the United States in 1911. Source: https://www.tuskegee.edu/programs-courses/colleges-schools/caens/cooperative-extension-program/history-of-tucep

Reasoning:

Iowa State Cooperative Extension began in 1914 Source: https://www.extension.iastate.edu/countyservices/files/page/files/6%20Learning%20Module%208%20ISU%20Extension%20and%20Outreach%20History.pdf 2001:5B0:44CC:DC88:113E:1EEE:F695:F5D1 (talk) 18:06, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: The first source you linked does not say that. Am I missing something? 3mi1y (talk) 07:22, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

It is said obliquely. Carver did something + a later sentence calls Campbell and Stalling the first Extension agents = Tuskegee Cooperative Extension Program and Smith County Texas Extension are tied for first. However 2001:5B0:44CC:DC88:113E:1EEE:F695:F5D1 that does not exactly agree with your phrasing, and there is the additional problem that Washington told Carver to do that. Is Washington the founder of Extension in the US? Washington and whoever at USDA gave the order to Stalling? Invasive Spices (talk) 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Context and meaning of the phrasing "Carver's George"

In Germany (as well as in Austria and Switerland) it was common until some decades ago to refer to others and oneself in that way. Karl Müller was refered to als Müller's Karl. The phrasing indicated for the person to belong to a certain family. There was no meaning of ownership involved. So, if George Washington Carver referred to himself as "Carver's George", he identified himself as part of the Carver family, not as their property. As this is a key element of the relationship between Moses and George Carver, I feel it should be mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.217.215.180 (talk) 14:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

George Washington Carver

He in vented 300 uses of Nuts alto he didn't in vent peanut butter. 74.51.206.118 (talk) 16:21, 9 March 2023 (UTC)