Talk:George E. Mylonas

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Comments[edit]

72.147.222.31 04:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)I was pleased to read of professor Mylonas. He my father and Aristotle Onasis were friends while growing up in Smyrna. When the professor visited Detroit on lecture tours, he was our house guest. I was invited to stay with him in Greece and take part in the digs at Mycennae, which I regretably did not do. I have kept 3 ancient Greek coins gifted to me by the professor.On one of my trips to greece he died the week before I arrived. My father on one trip visited Rhodes where he ran into Mr.Onasis, a conversation ensued wherein Mr. Onasis indicated that he would encourage me to visit him in Greece where Mr. Onasis had a relative whom he would like me to meet. Suffice it to say I did not go.My mother and I after my father passed were invited to the coronation of Constantine. I was very busy at that time ( I thought)and did not go although my mother would have greatly enjoyed it. I have enjoyed sharing my recollections as I enjoy thinking of my father and his friends. Ted Panaretos-tppanther@aol.com.“[reply]

His writing style in English is unusually modern and contemporary. Ironically, the subject of his dissertation is still an intense area of research in 2021, almost a century after he first wrote it. Viriditas (talk) 08:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

Passed. Constantine ✍ 20:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:George E. Mylonas/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 21:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will take this on in the following days. Constantine ✍ 21:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for picking it up -- I thought you might enjoy this one (and Marinatos), and I'll be grateful for your expertise. UndercoverClassicist T·C 17:49, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

As usual, a thorough, well-written, and informative article. Nothing major to complain about, just some comments:

  • His Greek name was not Γεώργιος Εμμανουήλ Μυλωνάς, Εμμανουήλ is the patronymic. It is confusing because Εμμανουήλ has no distinct genitive, but it is implied as 'Γεώργιος [του] Εμμανουήλ Μυλωνάς'. As a rule of thumb, Greeks don't have double names, and even then they should be identified by a hyphen between them.
    • Do you not give the patronymic as part of someone's full name? He always published in English as George E. Mylonas, if that makes any difference. I'm looking at Vladimir Lenin where his patronymic is bold in the first sentence but not given in the infobox or in the Russian. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not normally. The initial of the patronymic is sometimes used (especially to distinguish namesakes), but the full patronymic is found usually only in formal documents and occasions (e.g. a university degree), and then normally in the form 'First-name Last-name του Patronymic', e.g. Γεώργιος Μυλωνάς του Εμμανουήλ. The Russian use is not really analogous, as there the patronymic is far more prevalent, and you might even substitute it for the last name entirely when talking to someone (e.g. for Lenin, when you speak of 'Ilyich', then everyone knows whom you mean, unless you happen to be Brezhnev). Constantine ✍ 11:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        OK: so is it better to give his Greek name simply as Γεώργιος Μυλωνάς? I think his English name needs to be "George Emmanuel", as that's what he used in that language. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some WP:DUPLINKing in the lede and main article
    • I think these are now addressed (except where the link is duplicated in a caption, which is permitted in the MoS).
  • Would John Papadimitriou warrant a WP:REDLINK?
    • Done one better and ILL'd to the Greek Wikipedia.
  • he was captured on the island of Samos and imprisoned at Manisa and Smyrna Since Samos was part of Greece since 1912, that is unlikely; he was probably captured while trying to flee to Samos?
    • The Ur-source has Tο 1919 γράφτηκε ως δευτεροετής φοιτητής στη Φιλοσοφική Σχολή της Aθήνας, από την οποία αποφοίτησε το 1922 ενώ συγχρόνως υπηρετούσε στο Tάγμα Προσκολλήσεως της Στρατιάς Mικράς Aσίας. Kατά τις προσπάθειές του να διαφύγει, μετά την καταστροφή, στη Σάμο, αιχμαλωτίστηκε από τους Tούρκους. I'm not totally sure what to make of the commas, but my understanding is that ἡ καταστροφή can only really be the burning of Smyrna and the defeat of the Greek army in Ionia: there wasn't any disaster on Samos for it to be referring to. Any thoughts? I suppose it's theoretically possible he was escaping back to the Greek mainland and betrayed by some locals to the Turks? UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • It says 'During his attempts to flee, after the destruction [of Smyrna], to Samos, he was captured by the Turks'. So indeed he was fleeing to Samos but never made it there. Constantine ✍ 08:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Ah! I'd misunderstood στη. Now fixed. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:47, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Greek War Relief Organization is the Greek War Relief Association I think?
  • The Greek government suspended all archaeological investigation in the country after the war I assume this was due to the civil war? Perhaps a note to that effect, since this is otherwise an unusual thing to do?
    • I haven't seen the connection explicitly made in a source: I'll see if I can find one that makes it. UndercoverClassicist T·C 14:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't find anyone explicitly bringing in the war as the reason for the ban, but I've added an EFN to point out the correspondence of dates.
    UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:22, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Works for me, the context is there. Weird that no-one mentions specific reasons though; I assume it must be considered self-evident... Constantine ✍ 08:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's probably worth saying that very few sources seem to know that there was a ban: they report that projects (like the Palace of Nestor) which packed up in 1939 resumed in 1952, but don't seem to notice the post-war gap. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:49, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • He also excavated, in September of the same year, the underwater shipwreck any more details here (partly from personal interest)? Underwater archaeology was very much non-existent at the time.
    • Not so! Christos Tsountas had excavated at the battle-site of Salamis in the nineteenth century; Valerios Stais had done the Antikythera excavation around 1900. A small field, certainly, but one that the Greeks had been doing well for a while. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I know that some explorations had taken place (the Antikythera wreck came to my mind) but as a discipline it did not exist, as the technical means were limited; which is why I was interested to learn more. Did Mylonas also use sponge divers with diving suits? And I assume that he never went down himself? Constantine ✍ 11:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        All good questions. I'll have a look around the sources and see if something can be found; I know someone found some photographs from the expedition boat not too long ago. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • Have a look here: there's some good stuff which adds interest about the project (I've added it to the Artemisium page), though I'm not it would really meet DUEWEIGHT for Mylonas's biography. However, it's pretty clear that he directed operations from the surface, so I've changed the text somewhat. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
          • Thanks, the clarification is enough for GAN purposes. Constantine ✍ 08:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • In view of his dissertation being about Neolithic Greece, this should be linked somewhere, and possibly a time span given for the reader's benefit.
  • Made some very minor tweaks and fixes.

I will put this on hold, and have another read-through once the issues above are addressed before completing the review. Constantine ✍ 10:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks as ever, Constantine. I think I've replied to everything: would appreciate your thoughts on the Samos question and the name. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I did another read, it looks more than good to me and there's nothing more to add to my comments above. Well done, and thanks for creating another splendid article on a Greek archaeologist! Constantine ✍ 20:15, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 13:33, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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  • ... that the archaeologist George E. Mylonas was tortured almost to death during the Greco-Turkish War? Source: Cosmopoulos, Michael B. (2013). Ο Γεώργιος Μυλωνάς στο St. Louis [George Mylonas at St. Louis]. In Petrakos, Vasileios (ed.). Γεώργιος Εμμ. Μυλωνάς: Βίος και έργο 1898–1988 [George Emm. Mylonas: His Life and Work 1898–1988]. Library of the Archaeological Society of Athens (in Greek). Athens: Archaeological Society of Athens. p. 11. ISBN 9786185047092.; Kaiser, Alan (2023). Archaeology, Sexism, and Scandal: The Long-Suppressed Story of One Woman's Discoveries and the Man Who Stole Credit for Them (2nd ed.). London: Rowman and Littlefield. p. 46. ISBN 9781538174982.

Improved to Good Article status by UndercoverClassicist (talk). Self-nominated at 07:35, 22 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/George E. Mylonas; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.
Overall: Article was given GA status and nominated for DYK shortly after. QPQ is done - with one required as nomination pre-8 March. Article is long enough, well sourced, neutral and plagiarism free. Earwig picks up titles of organisations and books, which are unavoidable. Hooks are cited and interesting. I prefer ALT0 or ALT2. Lajmmoore (talk) 08:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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