Talk:Ganja Khanate

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Dating Confusion[edit]

There is some confusion on the dating and naming. The intro says: "Shahverdi Solṭan Ziyad-oglu Qajar became the khan of Ganja in 1554.[3]" Then in the list lower on the page the first khan links to the page that says: "Shahverdi Khan Ziyad-oghlu Qajar, (died 1760) was the first khan of Ganja from 1747 to 1760." This is a huge discrepency and should be corrected. The source of the first reference does say 1554. So perhaps this is referring to two khans that have the same name??? Youngkyf (talk) 11:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment[edit]

added the quote: "Thus Gandja, on the pretence that from the time of Tamara it had really belonged to Georgia, though long lost to that country owing to the weakness of her rulers, was invaded, the capital city of the same name stormed after a month's siege (2nd January 1804), Djavat Khan killed, and the khanate annexed. "Five hundred Tartars shut themselves up in a mosque, meaning, perhaps, to surrender, but an Armenian told the soldiers that there were some Daghestanis amongst them, and the name was a death-signal for all, so great is the exasperation of your Majesty's troops against those people for their raids into Georgia and the robber war they carry on," [1] but all the women in the town were spared -- a rare occurrence in Caucasian warfare, and due to Tsitsianoff's strict injunctions."

Source: John F. Baddeley, "The Russian conquest of the Caucasus", London: Longmans, Green and Co., 1908, p. 67, citing "Tsitsianoff's report to the Emperor: Akti, ix (supplement), p. 920". --AdilBaguirov 04:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Azerbaijani's disruptive edit[edit]

user:Azerbaijani, you are not correct to claim: "Tartar did not necessarily mean Azerbaijani's, or Turkic speakers." Actually, it is an academic consensus, even from Armenian researchers, that Tartar/Caucasian Tatar/Muslim/etc all refers to Azerbaijanis. An overwhelming proof is listed below (in future, refrain from such unilateral editings, discuss everything please). Meanwhile, your comments are applicable to other countries, such as Iran, where when authors write "Persian" they mean any Iranian, whether Turkic, Semitic, Caucasian or Iranic in origin. --AdilBaguirov 03:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1) [1]

2) Commonwealth and Independence in Post-Soviet Eurasia - Page 88 by Bruno (EDT) Coppieters, Dmitriĭ Trenin, A. (Alekseĭ) Zverev - Political Science - 1998 - 224 pages http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0714648817&id=OlF8OtvgXowC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&ots=3LBBScnea1&dq=tatars+azeris&sig=rtWk2pAOrLXGfJv0ywb94ceYroM

3) Oil and Gas in the Caucasus & Caspian: A History - Page 69 by Charles van der Leeuw - Political Science - 2000 - 190 pages http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0312232543&id=e7TsdB_P4t4C&pg=PA69&lpg=PA69&ots=O2oQJmU04s&dq=tatars+azeris&sig=LzFLq7MB6C3wiA_RS8aA8PNHbXs

4) Identity Politics in Central Asia and the Muslim World: Nationalism, Ethnicity and Labour in the... - Page 43 by Willem van Schendel, Erik Jan Zürcher - 2001 - 235 pages http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN1860642616&id=v2qLIiqoCK8C&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&ots=OiQ6Twmm3i&dq=tatars+azeris&sig=Mr_j2Mn2g4QHKpHSryqOYC5jWpw

5) The Making of the Georgian Nation - Page 180 by Ronald Grigor Suny - 1991 - 440 pages http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0253209153&id=riW0kKzat2sC&pg=RA3-PA180&lpg=RA3-PA180&ots=3Anln-wEMh&dq=tatars+azerbaijanis&sig=eYxtMi1E7z7piQs2QV_wbzl4dOg

6) http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0700705015&id=N8IKR0oqdRkC&pg=RA2-PA14&lpg=RA2-PA14&ots=QlhSAyosJt&dq=tartars+azerbaijanis&sig=pj-rNhmib5O6ErOdLPZKtT66yvs The Caspian: politics, energy and security - Page 14 by Shirin Akiner - 2004

7) http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0814719457&id=pletup86PMQC&pg=RA1-PA80&lpg=RA1-PA80&ots=AYb5tUB6MN&dq=tartars+azerbaijanis&sig=g_RnnCPssXlPjy9s7wAkxHbgXzs Black Garden: Armenia and Azerbaijan Through Peace and War - Page 80 by Thomas De Waal - 2003 - 337 pages

8) http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN3110122111&id=hC-enxM3KjIC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&ots=e9lf7wwgyn&dq=tartars+azerbaijanis&sig=8JVOmQCQEED0ri4y8xClRHghFYA Societal Culture and Management. - Page 3 by Theodore D. Weinshall - 1993 - 587 pages

9) Like Hidden Fire: The Plot to Bring Down the British Empire - Page 264 by Peter Hopkirk - 1997 - 448 pages On Secret Service East of Constantinople.: The Plot to Bring Down the British Empire. - Page 272 by Peter Hopkirk - 2001 - 431 pages http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0192802305&id=H71qNi6cF94C&pg=RA3-PA272&lpg=RA3-PA272&dq=tartars+azerbaijanis&sig=XPR3mq8mVphUWBYt-7E1ZmeEXLU

10) http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC01287080&id=2h0aAAAAMAAJ&q=tartars+azeri&dq=tartars+azeri Russia and Her Colonies - Page 240 by Walter Kolarz - 1952 - 334 pages

11) http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0856675520&id=uCgz8uSDzF4C&pg=PA1-IA67&lpg=PA1-IA67&ots=orgT_YioTZ&dq=tartars+azeri&sig=e_QggRdWxjAzDQR4jAiA9SHKG-Y In and Out of Focus: Images from Central Africa, 1885-1960 - Page 1 by Christraud M. Geary - Photography - 2003 - 128 pages

12) http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0814329160&id=KGciVUhpzXUC&pg=RA4-PA176&lpg=RA4-PA176&ots=e3YEHAjcST&dq=tartars+azeri&sig=6e4dw5vRFY2Biu95vasJf8-2Vj0 History on the Move: Views, Interviews and Essays on Armenian Issues - Page 176 by Edmond Y. Azadian - 2000 - 296 pages

13) http://books.google.com/books?vid=0_iZOhirJQkqVAEJW5_PbPD&id=430SAAAAIAAJ&q=tartars+azeri&dq=tartars+azeri The Russian Review - Page 388 by Hoover Institution on War, Revolution, and Peace, Karpovich, Michael, 1888-1959, Chamberlin, William Henry, 1897-1963 - 1941 --AdilBaguirov 03:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What are all of those links for? Also, Tartar was a broad term, in some instaces it was a general term which referred to Muslims and yes, you are very correct, it does resemble the way the term Persian is/was also used by the West. But you cannot put such a POV insertion as that in, assuming what the author of that quote meant himself. That is against Wikipedia policy.Azerbaijani 04:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mine is not POV -- it's supported by all of the above, stating firmly that Tatar/Tartar = Azerbaijanis. You are pushing a POV when denying this verifiable and long-established fact. Especially in relation to Ganja -- and who you think were those "Tatars", some unknown, faceless people? --AdilBaguirov 04:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Per the extensive evidence presented above, "Tatars" meant Azerbaijanis. --adil 05:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Russians called all Turkic speakers "Tatars", and the only Turkic people living in the territory of Azerbaijan were Azerbaijanis. How can anyone dispute this? Grandmaster 06:40, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

July 2015 lead changes[edit]

The discussion above established a consensus that the term "Muslim principality" is far too broad. User AdilBaguirov's sources, establish the khanate as an Azerbaijani khanate. The lead should reflect according to the consensus and sources. I adjusted the article. Mursel (talk) 15:42, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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