Talk:Gangsta rap/Archive 1

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2001

Ignoring (for the time) that this needs a lot of work, do we have any clearance on the copyright of the stuff from http://www.daveyd.com Kieran was here :)

I've seen on television Artists having opposition to the term "gangster rap". If this is true for the profession in general and not just some fabrication it would be prudent to mention this and replace the references with gansta'. Someone who knows for sure could please address this?

--Alan D

um.... gangsa rap is the same as gangster rap, only pronounced using ghetto talk and dropping the final r. it is the exact same thing...

I'm not sure that this text legally belongs in wikipedia. It is apparently a straight quote from an interview given by Ice T to http://www.daveyd.com.

"The first record that came out along those lines was Schooly D's 'P.S.K.' Then the syncopation of that rap was used by me when I made Six In The Morning. The vocal delivery was the same: '...P.S.K. is makin' that green', '...six in the morning, police at my door'. When I heard that record I was like "Oh shit!" and call it a bite or what you will but I dug that record. My record didn't sound like P.S.K., but I liked the way he was flowing with it. P.S.K. was talking about Park Side Killers but it was very vague. That was the only difference, when Schooly did it, it was "...one by one, I'm knockin' em out".

All he did was represent a gang on his record. I took that and wrote a record about guns, beating people down, and all that with Six In The Morning. At the same time my single came out, Boogie Down Productions hit with Criminal Minded, which was a gangster-based album. It wasn't about messages or "You Must Learn", it was about gangsterism. That was the New York shit. So there's no question that I was before Eazy because if you go back to 1982 with Cold Wind Madness, I was talking about being "the pimp, the player, the woman-layer", but Six In The Morning would be the first "Gangsta Rap", so to speak. After that, Cube wrote Boyz In Tha Hood which was like a bite of Six In The Morning [with the syncopation]. It's like "Six in the morning, police at my door..." and "The boyz in the hood are always hard...". If you play Boyz In The Hood at the same time as Six In The Morning, you'll hear they even break at the same point."(www.daveyd.com)

-- sodium

If the the source of the citation is given and if it's not to long it can be considered to fall under fair use.

How much is too long? This seems pretty large for a quote. Presumably www.daveyd paid money to Ice T for an exclusive interview, I think we would probably need their agreement to run it. -- sodium

yes, i guess it's too long after all. Wathiik

I removed the bulk of the article, because the first part is factually inaccurate in multiple ways. If someone wants to defend it, I'll provide more details, but I'm not going to take the time otherwise. The gangsta slang section is best done at hip hop slang, not here, I think. Tuf-Kat

Other important gangsta rappers include Comptons Most Wanted, Above The Law and 2Pac. Boogie Down Production's first album "Criminal Minded" probably also influenced gangster rap, and both the Beastie Boys and Run DMC were sampled and otherwise quoted by NWA, Above The Law and Eazy E, who popularized the new style that at first was basically hardcore rap, but later on, former NWA member Dr. Dre introduced more melodic elements especially from the realm of P Funk, creating a new style called G Funk. The style flourished on the west coast, but eventually many east coast artists adopted the lyrical style. Musically, however, the east did not abandon his own brand of hip hop. In the 1990s, at least on a lyrical level gangster rap also influenced rappers from the east coast, e.g. DMX, Jay Z and Notorious BIG.

Currently major gangster rappers include Ice Cube, who still follows the original P funk; Snoop Dogg, who raps in a G funk; and Warren G who still know as one of the Greatest rappers of all time, credited as creating a lot of the spirit of rap.

Wow. First of all, Dr. Dre didn't create G-Funk, Above The Law did, but go to the G-Funk article to debate it. Then, lol, Ice Cube follows the original P-Funk?? really? ever heard anything from Funkadelic? Ice Cube is just one of the numerous rappers who sampled Funkadelic. And about Warren G, please, show some objectivity and avoid such things as "Greatest rapper of all time" and claiming that he created anything as he only started in the early 90's. --SuperBleda 05:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

gangster slang

Gangster slang is characterized by of course gangsters who indirectly refer to something in a coded language, as part of the gangster lifestyle which consists of short words that mean something else.

dawg naturally came from the bucanneer section by the endzone, known as the dog pound whom a football player would call when they made a touchdown.
wanksta-referential term debuting from the gangster 50 cent which means not a gangster.

Probablly a portmanteau of wanker and gangsta/gangster.

Wanksta wasn't invented by 50 Cent. Its been used before. For instance in the song "Real Motherphuckin G's" by Eazy E, one of the other rappers calls Dr. Dre a wanksta.

Some notes, primarily for myself, though if anyone else wants to pick up what I'm putting down, feel free.

There should be some mention of bling-bling.
The Great Adventures of Slick Rick cover should be replaced by Rhyme Pays or O.G. - Original Gangsta.
Separate out Mafioso rap.
Add a disclaimer explaining that gangsta rap is less precise than gangsta hip hop, and make sure that's what's used throughout
Surely there's more to say about Straight Outta Compton
The para immediately under Hip hop moves west -- early 1990s could be expanded to include specific mention of Ice-T and such, and explain how the LA underground scene developed in the mid 80s
It's not obvious Doggystyle's album cover is Doggystyle -- it needs a caption. Thus, for consistency's sake, they all should.
More on what the East Coast was up to during the whole G funk thing (the last paragraph will overlap, but this is fixable)

Tuf-Kat

On the title of this page: I posit that gangsta rap is much, much more commonly used than gangsta hip hop a more accurate title (or maybe it's more precise -- I can never remember the difference). However, for the majority of listeners, I don't think they are particularly aware of the difference and consider rap and hip hop more or less synonyms (or are aware of the difference in the same way most people are aware that who and whom aren't quite the same thing), so they wouldn't be surprised or disturbed to click on a link to gangsta rap and be taken to a page called gangsta hip hop. Would it be a violation of naming conventions to move this (and East Coast rap, West Coast rap, Southern rap) to gangsta hip hop? Tuf-Kat

Google results (surprising)

"Gangsta hip hop" - 769
"Gangsta rap" - 60,800
"Gangster hip hop" - 37,500
"Gangster rap" - 8,090

I don't see that there's anything wrong with saying that "gangsta rap is a type of hip hop" - and gangsta rap is the more common name, I believe. Names of music genres don't have to make logical sense... Martin

Technically, gangsta rap ISN'T a type of hip-hop. It's a name given to West Coast hip-hop acts, primarily by watchdog groups headed by people like C. Delores Tucker, and it has generally negative connotations. East Coast hip-hop is not properly termed "gangsta rap." --b. Touch 22:02, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

OK, I thought this was clear, hip-hop is a culture, rap is a music that belongs to hip-hop, thus, there is no such thing as "gangsta hip-hop", and it's not valid to claim that "gangsta rap" is a type of hip-hop, however it's correct to claim that gangsta rap is a type of rap. --SuperBleda 05:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

How come you don't have Ice-T as the first gangsta rapper to have the Parental Advisory label on his CD in hip hop history.

many errors in this site

There are many errors in this site. The author confuses Ruthless Records (record company) with Death Row Records (record company). Further, many of the rappers referred to in this article as gangsta rappers would be offended by that title. Public Enemy never spoke of killing anyone in the literal since in their music. I could name 40 other errors.

This might be contraversial, but I think that there should be mentioning about the influence of Jewish Americans in Gangsta rap. I.E., Jerry Heller - NWA, etc.

hahaha, sure, but he only was their manager, or something like this, it's not as if he actually rapped or did beats. and anyways, yeah, how can Public Enemy be considered gangsta rap. btw, shouldn't we say something in the article about studio gangsta rap? (i'm talking about "studio gangstas") --SuperBleda 05:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Well Public Enemy are Hardcore Rap not Gangsta rap and you can't put all the eastcoast Rap into this section Gangsta rpa is westcoast exclusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PE is neither Gangsta nor Hardcore rap. They don't even cuss in their songs and the few times they do it is bleeped out.

definition of Gangsta rap

In the hip-hop genre, "gangsta rap" is used almost exclusively as a term synonymous with West Coast hip-hop. East Coast hip-hop artists do not generally consider their music "gangsta rap." Therefore, this article needs extensive cleanup, revising, and editing. --b. Touch 21:52, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I disagree. The original usage of the term was probably exclusively West Coast, but that is no longer the case. Allmusic says Biggie was gangsta rap, for example, MTV.com calls Jay-Z a gangsta rapper, Nas, Busta Rhymes and 50 Cent are also called gangsta rappers, this page calls G funk an offshoot of East Coast gangsta rap, this page talks about New York gangsta rap and Chuck D has called both Jay-Z and Ja Rule gangsta rappers. There is, perhaps, a difference in usage, but I don't think the term is exclusive to the West Coast.

Interestingly, this article is a #3 google hit, which is pretty sweet, and a good reason to focus on it! I wonder if we could improve it to featured level soon...Tuf-Kat 01:55, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Allmusic is *not* an authority on hip-hop; they said Dru Hill were rappers. MTV gave Sisqó a hip-hop award. Within the hip-hop industry and hip-hop culture, "gangsta rap" is *still* primarily used to describe 1990s era West Coast output; the term is now an archaic one. A few East Coast rappers (Biggie comes to mind, as do Capone-n-Noreaga and Mobb Deep) could be labeled "Gangsta rappers without too much of a stretch of the term. Nas does not qualify as "gangsta rap" because his music lacks the extreme misogonistic and hedonistic tendencies, and Busta, 50, and Ja Rule are more properly termed "pop rappers" than "gangsta rappers." And I see a picture of OutKast here; and OutKast always has been the antithesis of gangsta rappers since 1992. A lot of the information in this article should really be moved to a discussion of hip-hop in general, using "gangsta rap" as a redirect. Most uninitiated people term the music as such, but the term is really not used anymore, and perhaps this article should be shortened, explain the "gangsta rap" phenominon as being more-or-less a 1990s phenominon, move any post-Biggie discussion of mainstream hip-hop to an article labeled "pop rap," where artists such as Busta, Ja Rule, Nelly, Fabolous, and 50 Cent can be properly discussed.

PS. you seem to be one of the few that understands that "rap" applies ONLY to mainstream hip-hop music. KRS-ONE said it best: "rap is something you DO, hip-hop is something you LIVE. REspect.

PPS. A lot of hip-hop related articles here (especially the Def Jam page) are just plain horrible in their lack of content. In fact, Black music here as a whole has been more or less glossed over. SInce I've been here, I've had to create a page for Sly & the Family Stone, revamp an embarrisingly brief Supremes page, create a page for Dru Hill, and there's still no page for The S.O.S. Band, The Gap Band, or even Ronald Isley (the Isley Brothers page makes NO mention of the post-90s work with R, Kelly). If you'd like to help me on some of those as well, that would be great. It sounds like we need a project set up for all of this.

--b. Touch 10:43, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly. I made a Music Collaboration of the Week which could be used for this purpose. BTW, I actually only use "rap" to refer to the act of rapping, and not as a synonym for hip hop music, even for pop-rappers. Tuf-Kat

If gangsta rap and west coast hip hop really are synonyms, then this article should be merged into West Coast hip hop (or vice versa). I think I heard somewhere that Schoolly D is an east coast gangsta rapper and even that west coast gangsta rap owes something to him. If there is a difference of usage, then some people are wrong or Wikipedia should reflect the differences of usage. I use gangsta rap and west coast hip hop as if neither is a subset of the other. Tim Ivorson 14:00, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

gangsta rap and west-coast hip-hop are really not synonyms. firstly because lots of the earliest gangsta rappers, like Kool G Rap, Schoolly D or Just-Ice are from New York, and then because on the west coast, there are non-gangsta rappers, such as for example, People Under The Stairs. --SuperBleda 05:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, we can't decide that allmusic or MTV or anyone else is wrong, all we can do is cite differing sources and explain that the term is not used consistently. With such a potentially generic term as gangsta rap, it can be a Good Thing to think of what would be most useful for a reader -- note that Icelandic hip hop describes a "gangsta rapper"; having the article on the other end of that link claim that "gangsta rap" is unique to 90s West Coast US will be confusing and malinformative. We already have an article on West Coast hip hop, and one on G Funk, so I don't think limiting gangsta rap to the West Coast would be very useful as it would be redundant. Maybe the best thing to do is explain that the term is not used consistently, and then go on to discuss the use of gangsta themes in hip hop, no matter the time and place. Tuf-Kat 15:14, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. Tim Ivorson 19:46, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I just performed the copyedit from Hades. There will be no merging; this aricle is more-or-less analogous with what you would post in an article called Mainstream hip hop, because that's what it's really about. For now, though, it can stay here. Added was a note about the usage of the term "gangsta rap" (it's almost exclusive to the West and the South), and a number of changes, including:

Swapping of "selected albums" for each artist to reflectthe album that best reflects their work or the style being mentioned. Since when was Roc La Familia a definitive Jay-Z record?

NPOV copyedits galore. I think my favorite was "Eminem arose from Detroit to become the greatest rapper of all time." Others that were removed include the dressing down the original WikiAuthor gave Nas for his post-Illmatic releases, and DMX helping "put together" Ruff Ryders (for the uninformed, they're his management company. He didn't put the company together; he's just their flagship artist).

Removing a listing of R&B artists from the paragraph on Jermaine Dupri...especially since they were listed in the article as if they were hip-hop performers.

Properly defining the new "pop-rap" era and sound.

Removing a lot of redundancy and misinformation.

--b. Touch 16:41, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

---

What I have changed, Wed May 18th 2005: 1. Removed Slick Rick & his picture from the part about the pioneers of gangsta. The originators of this style as far as I know are Schooly D, Ice-T, NWA & BDP. Slick Rick's album (which is 89 anyway, it is later than the others) is not really gangster. 2. Removed LL Cool J as 'proto gangsta rap' because he only got kind of gangsta after everyone else did. Removed Too Short as proto-gangsta. 3. Added Hustler's Convention to the proto-gangsta-rap. 4. Replaced Busta Rhymes (who is not particularly gangsta) with Black Moon (93, same year as Wu Tang, some of the earliest NYC violent street music).

After: the header ==Southern and Midwestern gangsta rap== the whole article switches back and forth from mainstream rap with absolutely no gangsta related lyrics (like Kriss Kross, Nelly) to gangsta rap. I dont want to interfere with this part of the article because I really dislike the artists described.

My opinion: I think it is imporant that gangsta rap is understood as a subgenre of hip-hop, basically all hip-hop with lyrics describing gang and crime related activities I guess. Rap that does not, doesn't belong in this article. It is important to mark out the pioneers of this form. I don't like the way the article has a narrative of "hip hop moving west" and "the empire of death row" and the "empire of bad boy" and so on, this narrative is not very objective. I dont have the time to do major changes but whoever agrees with me, keep an eye open, and do little changes here and there.

-LL Bruno

thanks for the changes first of all. the Slick Rick, LL, Busta references I had thought about removing in the past but eventually didn't. as for the southern/midwestern gangsta rap, the paragraph was actually much worse in the past, it seemed to claim Goodie Mob were gangsta rap, for one thing (I left in the reference but only as an introduction). But yeah...like yourself, I didn't want to make too many changes as I'm not all that familiar with the artists mentioned. Lil Bow Wow definitely shouldn't be there, and I dont know why I didnt remove it earlier. I was under the impression Da Brat had a lot of gangsta content, though. And I thought Nelly was at least pop-gangsta (even if most of his songs seem to be just about partying). But as I said, I'm not at all familiar with his stuff beyond the singles I'm unfortunately subjected to. And I don't think it says Kriss Kross are gangsta rap, it just mentions them as how Dupri got his start. I'll remove Lil Bow Wow and Nelly for now.

I've also been planning to alter the pop-rap section as it seems to be under the impression the article is about its relation to hip hop in general rather to gangsta rap specifically.--Jamieli 13:01, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

I whole heartedly disagree with your use of gangsta rap to describe east coast hardcore hip-hop and to label some of the east coast artists such as Slick Rick, Nas, and LL Cool J etc., as gangster rappers. The terms gangsta rap and hardcore hip-hop have been improperly used, not just on wikipedia but by the media in general. First of all "gangsta rap" is mostly a 90's era west coast phenomenon and the term has been depricated in recent years by the hip-hop community (unfortunately not by the media). It's more acurately a subset of west coast hardcore (note that not all hardcore west coast hip-hop is gangsta rap). I can't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the artists that you've mentioned as gangster rappers would be offended by the characterization. Gangster rap was coined and performed by "real" gangters: crips, bloods and the like (Tupac-blood, snoop-east side crip, Suge Knight-Blood, Easy-E-Crip). Just talking about violence, crime or socially frowed upon subjects does not a gangster make. We don't call white artist gangsters when they talk about similar subjects in their music. I'm inclined to believe that there is some underlying racist motivation for the liberal use of the term by the media and the use of the broad brush stroke used to characterize a large portiion of hip-hop music as gangster, especially when there is no reference to gangs or gang affiliation. If your not going to change the page then you should at least make reference to this contention at the very top whether you agree with it or not. 69.226.230.116 Roan Nicholson

rename page

for some reason this page is under "gangsta rap" with a redirect from "gangster rap". this is against wiki policy on redirects... You redirect the mispelling to the correct spelling, not vice-versa.

Google hits for "gangster rap" : 59,200

Google hits for "gangsta rap" : 551,000

--Jamieli 7 July 2005 17:30 (UTC)

That's exactly the reason why "gangsta rap" is the right term, it's because it's about 10 times more used than the one with a r, not matter if anyone thinks it looks retarded or not --SuperBleda 05:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

hardcore hip-hop includes, imho, not only gangster rap but also other hard, non-commercial kinds of rap music. for example, most of Public Enemy's work is definitely hardcore hip hop, but certainly not gangster rap. Wathiik 8 July 2005 12:29 (UTC)

so what wathiik? move it to the right section

spelling is correct wether google agrees or not. gangsta rap makes the article look retarded.

It's not about whether "google agrees", it's about what the commonly used spelling is. it's originally a slang term that acquired a different, more phonetic spelling as slang terms often do. and what would really be "retarded" would not be using that spelling despite the fact it is almost ten times more common than the supposedly "correct" spelling. --Jamieli 20:15, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

um... ghetto speak stays in the ghetto. educated people pronounce the "r".

Move it. This is an enyclopedia, not urban-dictionary.com. Spell things correctly, so it looks like such.

Oh give up already, you are not going to win here. "gangsta rap" is the accepted, common spelling of the term. It appears ten times more than "gangster rap" on Google. Encyclopedia Britannica spells it gangsta rap. Encarta spells it gangsta rap. Webster's spells it gangsta rap. The American Heritage Dictionary spells it gangsta rap. And Wikipedia spells it gangsta rap.

For someone who fancies themselves a linguistic expert, you appear to be very poorly versed on the concept of etymology. --Jamieli 16:45, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Do not rename this page. That is (unfortunately or not) the correct spelling for the enre, not *assumes uptight analyst voice* "gangster rap". --FuriousFreddy 18:01, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Why don't all you white boys stop your bullshit. A Gang is a gang & you don't want the world to know about it. Stop your fucking crying. Racist assholes. You don't see us trying to terminate the KKK site!

Excuse me?

Just take a look at the inter-language links. The Wikipedia articles in German, Italian, Dutch, Spanish, Swedish, etc. all spell it "gangsta rap." Once a spelling is established (used frequently in print) then it becomes an acceptable spelling of the word or neologism. For example, 'phat' is not spelled 'fat', like in Phat Girlz. It's not about how educated the speaker is, gangsta rap is really the preferred spelling. - GilliamJF 22:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The poster complaining about someone not wanting the world to know about gangs isn't making any sense with that argument, but s/he stumbled onto a decent (not perfect, but decent) parallel for keeping "gangsta." The Ku Klux Klan is not amended to be spelled Clan, as per standard usage. The use of K instead of C was in vogue at the time. If we're going to take KKK as a self-titling that ought not to be changed, then by similar reasoning we shouldn't change the spelling of the self-titled "gangsta" rappers. OK, not the best argument ever, but I had to try to recover something from that strange little rant.

Why does it claim that materialism is a vice? One can be a materialist and still be virtuous.

Ehhh. in itself, I guess it is a vice, regardless of other personality traits. This argument seems like "You could be cheating on your wife, and still generally be virtuous... 85.226.122.222 15:36, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

danm nigga you fools don't know shit bout thug life no bitch in my its all thug

Black racism

Article does not mention anti-white balck supermacism of this "style": From "lyric" of groups mentioned in artice The Wu-Tang Clan (Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, 1997): I strategize an invasion; the mission be assassination, snipers hitting Caucasians with semi-automatic shots heard around the world; Ice-T (Home Invasion, 1993): Now I'm black but black people trip 'cause white people like me; white people like me I but don't like them. . . . I don't hate whites, I just gotta death wish for motherfuckers that ain't right Dr Dre (The Chronic, 1993) : it's time to rob and mob and break the white man off something lovely

If you want some better example of "racism", quote Ice Cube's Cave Bitch (or even some other of his songs), or some song like MC Ren's Do You Believe, or even some song by Da Lench Mob, but not Killarmy. --SuperBleda 05:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

It mentions racism in the "controversy over subject matter". And about your examples, while I'm here: the Dr. Dre example is from a song about the LA riots, where Dre and some other rappers play characters involved in the riots. The first one is by Killarmy, not Wu-Tang Clan, and it shouldn't be taken seriously; it obviously is just referring to figures of authority in general, who in case you hadn't noticed tend to be white in Western society, and who would be targeted in an overthrow of what the rappers perceive as a racist society; I should also mention that Killa Sin, a member of Killarmy, has a white wife. Killarmy aren't gangsta rap either, though their lyrics are fairly heavy on violence. The Ice-T quote being cited is baffling; "Race War" is an anti-white supremacy song that demands "justice", and quite why you quoted "I don't hate whites" is puzzling to me as it sort of hinders your case. The song also includes the lyrics "When this shit hits, there's gonna be a lotta white kids rollin with the Africans / You can't sweat skin, because a lot of blacks is down with the Republicans". Basically, condemning that song for being racist is like condemning Kunta Kinte for being racist for saying "We will kill the white man". --Jamieli 17:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

When Kunta Kinte said "We will kill the white man" i think he realy mean it, fact that he overestimeted his (cap)abilities does not change anything, just as nazi overestimated their capabilities. Dr. Dre 'just playing characters' is an double standard, because any white group 'just playing' characters of any white who assulted blacks will be imediately labeled as racist. "Killa Sin, a member of Killarmy, has a white wife" it just mean he is ready to sacriface his own genetic heritage just to destroy (part of) white race. Additionl from Killarmy, the same "song" that were already quoted: 'I got a war plan more deadlier than Hitler', ok Wu-Tang were 'just' their publishers. Ice-T was quoted 'white people like me I but don't like them'.

-----

When Kunta Kinte said "We will kill the white man" he did not said it 'for fun'. Not being in position to actualy kill an all white man does not make him less racist.

I don't understand this sentence at all. Rephrase?

Dr. Dre 'just playing characters' is an double standard, because any white group 'just playing' characters of any white who assulted blacks will be imediately labeled as racist.

That would depend on how it was written. I'm sure there are songwriters out there who could pull it off (Bob Dylan springs to mind); it would be a very challenging task anyway. It's obviously a lot easier to get people to be understanding of the circumstances and motivations that triggered the LA riots than it is to get people to understand the motivations, for example, some KKK guys who kidnap a black guy from a bar and murder him.

"Killa Sin, a member of Killarmy, has a white wife" it just mean he is ready to sacriface his own genetic heritage just to destroy (part of) white race.

Surely you can't be serious. If you're going to resort to conspiracy theories this ridiculous, I have no interest in continuing this discussion. Also, it's very revealing that you consider mixed race babies to be "destroying the white race".....

mixed are not white, so they did their 'job' of decreasing white numbers.

Additionl from Killarmy, the same "song" that were already quoted: 'I got a war plan more deadlier than Hitler',

It's just a hyperbolic braggadocious simile, a metaphor for a lyrical/musical "war plan"; it may be somewhat ill-advised and tasteless, but it is not intended to mean anything deep. Rappers say stuff all the time that is over the top and exaggerated. The object of the simile means nothing either. Nas used the line "Hanging niggas like the Klu Klux Klan". He's obviously not pro-KKK. Killarmy are not pro-Hitler.

Whath was sad was 'more deadlier'. It has nothing to do with anti or pro.

ok Wu-Tang were 'just' their publishers.

They are also "just the publishers" for numerous artists who aren't black, including whites and Jews.

Mafioso Rap

Gangsta rap is a term properly used only to describe West coast hip hop (Deathrow) or West Coast-influenced rap (i.e. Master P's roster). Mafioso rappers such as Raekwon and Nas "Escobar" were strongly influenced by Kool G Rap, who's narrative-drivent styles is tied to East Coast hardcore rap more than anything else. While Mafioso rap contains violence and profanity, it isn't to the extremities of that of so-called "gangsta rap". Its true emphasis lies in the art of storytelling, not shock effect. Some east coast rappers fit the definition (Mobb Deep, C-N-N, Gravediggaz, the G-unit Collective etc) but they are more properly termed as East Coast hardcore rappers, or simply East Coast rappers. --Chubdub 20:35, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

______________________

Some one needs to revert this article back to its previous version, since half of it was deleted by a vandal. --Chubdub 02:14, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

East Coast gangsta rap

How come there's always someone who's willing to buy this suppa dupa gengsta madrfacker shit? Preposterous... -213.250.12.113 13:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

You can't put East coast rap to this section since Gangsta Rap is west coast rap exclusive!!62.0.180.186 16:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

We addressed this above. Not everybody uses "gangsta rap" to refer only to West Coast hip hop. This article is more useful if it mostly addresses the wider interpretation. Tim Ivorson 2006-05-24

Gangsta Rap is West Coast! as ice-T invited it. Hardcore Rap is mostly East Coast (til' 1996 when the gangsta rap ended) At least a half page here is totally wrong. I want a re-creating this page!!! 85.250.170.60 16:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh really? Tell me, what was Ice-T's first hit? Six n the morning? And what did he call it? West Coast's PSK, that's right, he kept giving Schoolly D phone calls talking about he wanted to do a west coast version PSK, that's why he sounds so much like Schoolly D in that song. If Ice-T invented anything besides his own style, it had to be west coast gangster rap, after east coast gangster rap had been invented.

I disagree, none of schooly D s music ever had guns, pimping, or useed words threatning vilence to aanyone. Some of his Music was angry like I Dont Like Rock N Roll but never refered to himself as a Gangsta, drug dealer, or pimp. Fact is the first West Coast rap single was also the first rap song to refer to guns, pimping, and use words such as NIGGA or HO.

Has Gangsta Rap duped many young people into a life of crime and poverty?

Alot of young people actaully believe that a "Thug Life" is to be admired. Yet a lot of the pioneers of Gangsta Rap are now mainstream Hollywood darlings. Several of the early Gangsta Rappers came from a middle class background with both parents. Ice-T, Ice Cube are now making comedies and mainstream movies while some children who truely believed in a Gangsta life style are in prison or living in poverty today.[1] How many of the original Gangsta Rappers now live in the areas they sing about? Some of the other leaders and founders of Gangsta Rap have died before their time. I see it as pure entertainment, but some young people actually believe that Gangsta life style is the way too go. Education is the only way out for poor people. Education is the only way for a better a life. Remember Gangsta Rap is only for entertainment.

I agree with you. But (I don't mean to sound like a smartass), Ice Cube is actually one of the few gangsta rappers that still lives in his old hood.

The most succesful rap artist, or gangsta rapper in terms of sale (in my eyes in all terms) 2pac said in his Ressurection documentary(freely translated from a swedish sub.. but you'll get the message):

"It's like you've got the Vietnam war right?

And just because the reporters show us the pictures here at home - of the war, and that's what ended the war

- or probably the shit would have gone on longer.

And no one would have known exactly what had happen

- would we had believe that they died in a brave manner, in some beautiful way?

Just because we saw the horror, it made us stop the war.

I thought, "That's what I wanna do as an artist, as a rapper. I wanna show the graphical details of what I see, of my society and hopefully it ends, right there."

"There's a bad side and that's when children see you and try to copy it.

I haven't figured it all out yet, but a positive thing is...

When a child who lives in a house where the mother is a crackhead

- he hear the rap. He's like,

"It's like this everyday. So I don't have to be ashamed."

It goes both ways.

For me, it's like, when I sing:

"I live the Thug Life baby, I'm hopeless."

On person might hear that and just like how it sounds.

But I do it for the children who lives a Thug Life and feel like it's hopeless.

So when I say "hopeless", and when I say it like that, I reach him.

And even if, when I reach him...

- makes it look like it's wonderful to live that life for the kid who doesn't live it..

I can't help it. It's a phase of life. He will leave Thug Life soon enough.

But for the person I tried to reach, he picks it up and I can speak with him. " --84.217.148.124 22:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

There have been several allegations that the CIA is bringing in drugs to the minority communites.[2]If this is true than weren't people like 50 Cent selling the drugs that the CIA was shipping in? That would mean that 50 Cent was in partnership with the CIA to destory the inner cities if the story of CIA involvement in shipping drugs to poor areas is correct. Then the CIA would need people to push the product to our people. That would mean that they were connected.[3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Latin L (talk • contribs) 2006-06-03

Intro

I changed 'focus on the lifestyles of inner city youth] to 'criminals'. GMF and Public Enemy (for example) both focus heavily on violence in inner city life, but you wouldn't call the gangsta. The defining characteristic of gangsta is that the rapper adopts the persona of a criminal. Ashmoo 07:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

West vs. East

For starters the concept of 'gangsta rap' was always a labelled that came from sources external to the rap industry. Tupac stated in a sworn testimony that whilst people labelled his music 'gangsta' rap, he did not agree with the title. Thus this article should be editted in accordance with this.

Secondly, and more imporantly, east-coast 'hardcore' should not be mentioned in this article. Wu-Tang, for example, have nothing to do with gangsta rap nor do any of the Boot Camp Clik. They are neither gangsta in form or content.

Gangsta rap purely pertains to the west coast, mainly due to the more explicit nature of gang cultures found in L.A.

Thirdly, the chronology is askew.

Somebody needs to clean this up.

edits 23rd july

What's up

I added a short section on earlier gangsta themes, such as the 'rapping' of Hustlers Convention, Iceberg Slim and Stagolee. Let me know if there is anything that needs to be fixed. It is important for this article to be historical.

I changed the 80s part. I think we should go with Ice-T's version of events (I have added a small quote with link). If anyone disagrees with Ice-T's version then I think they should cite references. The section should gradually be expanded with a chronological description of other important gangsta groups before 1990, especially BDP, Kool G Rap and Too Short.

After 1990 the article repeats things and needs work. What do people suggest needs to be fixed? I am in favor of a chronological approach. I don't think that east coast rap before 97 should be ignored, groups like Onyx, Black Moon, Mobb Deep, as well as Wu Tang, Nas and Biggie, and others too of course, need to be mentioned.

I disagree that "Gangsta rap purely pertains to the west coast, mainly due to the more explicit nature of gang cultures found in L.A." Check the Ice-T interview. PSK is about a gang. Gangsta rap is not just about gangs but generally about the criminal lifestyle. But there are East Coast lyrics about gangs too. I agree that 'gangsta rap' is a term created by the media and has been abused. On the other hand many MCs proudly use 'gangsta rap' for their music and 'gangsta' for themselves. We should add something in the beginning of the article about the use of the term. I remember back before the whole East/West beef the term 'gangsta' was used for a lot of groups wherever they were from.

Let me know what people think about those 4 points. --Taramenos 19:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Edits July 27th:

I removed this paragraph:

"Until the very late 1980s, hip hop had been dominated by the East Coast (essentially New York City, though Philadelphia and New Jersey also had vital scenes), with West Coast hip hop a curiosity dominated by dance-heavy and critically reviled electro hop artists like Egyptian Lover and World Class Wreckin' Cru. The latter crew included Dr. Dre before he joined N.W.A." Although it is interesting I think it belongs in the "West Coast hip-hop" article.

I added more info on BDP, Schooly D and Ice-T.

I edited the sections so the 1986-1990 section is pretty much OK. I started working on Ice-T's work after 1990.

--Taramenos 19:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Lil' Flip is not a pioneer of gangsta rap

This must be a mistake or vandalism by a prankster. someone needs to edit this once the lock has been taken off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.30.132 (talk • contribs)

Done. BTW, if you become a user you won't be blocked by that. ReverendG 17:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

This Page NEEDS to be SEMI-PROTECTED

This is ridiculous. Everyday there are (mostly unregistered) vandals on this page. I just noticed one vandal who added something in that was not noticed for five days. Some one needs to protect this page.

America-centrism

This article seems to be too systemically biased towards American artists; there is quite a bit of g-rap in French as well ... (understatement, actually) John Riemann Soong 01:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

No there is not. I'm french and I cannot think of anything close to a gangster rap movement in France. You can mention NTM or Lunatic, it's still only hardcore rap, regardless whether the rappers are actual gangsters or not, there's just no gangster rap movement in France.

seeing as how it began in America and the most popular artists are from America, it makes sense.

Schoolly D and Early Gangsta Rap

The article talks about LL Cool J being the first one to use the word "gangster" in rap in 1985, and reports that PSK is from 1986. Schoolly D's Gangster Boogie is from 1984, and therefore should be noted as the earliest use of that word in rap songs, and PSK is from 1985. Sources there : [4] [5], or otherwise Google "schoolly d gangster boogie 1984" or "schoolly d psk 1985". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.147.133.191 (talk • contribs)

Just because you use the word gangster does not mean it is gangsta rap. Gangster by most definitions is a criminal. Schooly D or LL Cool J never referd to themselfs as criminals, neither did their lyrics refer to themselfs as pimps, gangstas, or drug dealers. Their lyrics never used words like HO and refering to women as Bitches.—Preceding unsigned comment added by John handcock (talk • contribs)

Agreed. Schoolly D is more appropriately considered an influence. Besides using the word "gangster" (hardly a huge accomplishment), Schoolly is also notable for (I'm gonna quote myself here) embracing an antisocial persona without explicit irony. Plus, there's the song "P.S.K.". And his early albums (mostly his first) did in fact have guns and threats (albeit cartoonish ones) of violence.

I'm willing to file Schoolly under "Hardcore rappers". — edgarde 09:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)