Talk:French corsairs

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Rewrite[edit]

"Corsairs were French privateers from the north-western French port of St-Malo..." Come again ? And Dunkirk, never heard of Dunkirk ? This article really does need a total re-write to bring it anywhere near Wikipedia standard. As it stands, it is far too vague about the legal status of French privateers, gives no indication of the geographical or chronological development and includes some very marginal figures while ignoring major historical names such as Jean Bart, Forbin, Du Casse, Cassard, Pointis... There is unfortunately very little published on the subject in English - but it would be advisable to consult Russell's "The French Corsairs" at least. For any serious study the work of J.S.Bromley is still absolutely indispensable. Boulet rouge 07:40, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tidy-up[edit]

I have tried to make a bit more sense of some of the sentences translated from the French and edit out a few of the most glaring mistakes. The overall problem remains - the insistence on Saint-Malo is really a bit much - and I don't have time to re-write it all at the moment. So, gentle reader, a large pinch of salt with it... --Boulet rouge (talk) 21:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed the "from St Malo" phrase, which was clearly plain wrong. Including in the article references to different ports the Corsairs worked out of would be good, but I also don't have time right now. --78.150.159.109 (talk) 09:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in the Etymology section, there is a reference to an "Arabic" word ("qorṣaan"), but it is written in Roman script. The "qorṣaan" reference is unhelpful, because Arabic is written with its own Arabic script, not the Roman script. Determining and/or confirming a translation of the word "qorṣaan" is nearly impossible using web-based sources. Furthermore, every Google search item uses Wikipedia like it's truth written in stone, so running a search on "qorṣaan" turns up a million carbon copies of this article as search items. That is humiliating on so many levels: shame on the "authors" of those websites for their poor reasearch, but shame on Wikipedia too, for not having higher standards in the first place. I feel doubly embarrassed for vainly wasting my time chasing this rabbit down its hole, and for our culture's mediocre standards. Lukewilson125 (talk) 18:30, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Free port"[edit]

When this page is updated, a contemporary definition of "free port", perhaps its own page even, would help understanding of some of the French cities discussed.

If the definition is the same as the current, then a link to the "free port" page with some discussion of historical free ports would be sufficient. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.216.42.37 (talk) 03:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Addition[edit]

I think Jean "The Corsair" Lafitte of New Orleans should definitely be added to the list of famous Corsairs.

Incorrect definition[edit]

Corsairs are /not/ always hired by the French as stated in the opening line. See for example, Nicolas Vatin, "The Hospitallers at Rhodes and the Ottoman Turks, 1480-1522": "A specialization of the Hospitallers at Rhodes was the systematic organization of one semi-military activity that would later be considerably developed, when the Order was installed at Malta. This was the corso. In effect, Rhodes became the principal port in the region for corsairs."(158) The Hospitallers were not in the employ of the French government.

Furthermore, the first definition of "corsair" in the OED states, "The name in the languages of the Mediterranean for a privateer; chiefly applied to the cruisers of Barbary, to whose attacks the ships and coasts of the Christian countries were incessantly exposed. In English often treated as identical with pirate, though the Saracen and Turkish corsairs were authorized and recognized by their own government as part of its settled policy towards Christendom."

This article needs to be rewritten to reflect that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.36.207.10 (talk) 23:43, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Request move: Corsair → French privateer[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: pages moved, the article to French corsairs and the dab to Corsair. -- JHunterJ (talk) 23:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

– Currently the article corsair is about French privateers, ship captains licensed to plunder by the French state. This move would put a disambiguation page at the base name. Oxford defines cosair as "a privateer, especially one operating along the southern coast of the Mediterranean in the 16th-18th centuries." According to the Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa, "The corsairs sailed under the colors of the so-called Barbary states of North Africa from the early sixteenth century until the European naval powers suppressed their activity after the end of the Napoleonic wars." Googling corsair -wikipedia gives you a computer accessory company, a trimaran maker, a manuscript database, and a distillery. The word is of French origin, so perhaps someone confused etymology with primary topic. Relisting. Jenks24 (talk) 05:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC) Kauffner (talk) 08:41, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment wouldn't it be Corsair (France) ? 70.24.251.208 (talk) 09:56, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The equivalent article about Barbary pirates is Barbary corsair, so the direct equivalent would be French Corsair. The two issues seem to be is Corsair usually in English distinctly French, as opposed to a generic term, and is the history of the French usage clearly the origin of the term, or did corsaro in Italian, which the article claims is the origin of the word, mean the same thing?Monstrelet (talk) 15:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This term is most specifically linked to North African pirates. American Heritage defines a corsair as, "A pirate, especially along the Barbary Coast." The early references in OED are to Saracen attacks on Italy, and word is given as "Corsales," i.e. from Italian. Later the word gets Frenchifed. There are several books on this subject with the phrase "French corsair" in the title,[1][2] so that's certainly an option as well. Kauffner (talk) 10:22, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The OED suggests a medieval latin original cursarius, becoming corsaire in 15th century French but noting other mediterranean words with the same derivation e.g. It. corsale. There is a strong Mediterranean bias in the definition, so the section in the article suggesting a 12th. century Breton origin for the French corsair seems dubious and would need proper referencing to show these Bretons were different to the usual medieval pirate/privateer. Overall, I think I'm leaning to corsair being a generic term, albeit the word the English settled upon came from French, which would support a replacement generic article, with this article being a specific main article about French corsairs, of whom there were many notable ones.Monstrelet (talk) 15:10, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support French corsairs per nom (cf. Barbary corsairs and plural text usage in the current corsair article). The prominence of various privateer corsairs along with various aircraft of that name and numerous other uses make the dab page the ideal target for "corsair". — AjaxSmack 03:06, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

the status of rights of asylum[edit]

Jean de Châtillon, who was a bishop, in 1144 gave the town of Saint-Malo the status of rights of asylum ....

I don't understand this last phrase; "status of rights" has no obvious meaning. Did the bishop empower the town to grant asylum at the discretion of its own authorities, or declare a blanket asylum that could not be denied, or do something else? By what power did he do whatever he did? Where was he bishop? —Tamfang (talk) 05:17, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Botched edit (recent?)[edit]

The first sentence of the article is mangled beyond comprehension. I am a reader, not an expert on the subject, but it's obvious to me that something is wrong.

This is how it currently reads:

Corsairs (French: corsaire) were privateers, authorized to conduct raids on shipping of a nation at war with "of King" origin mid 16th cent, front France, English Kings, United States Navy, Brazil - Army' eds 1808-1893 Armed, France Napolion's time, Portugal, Corsuires from medieval Latin "corsuries" - "raids nation;s Kings" - to runs - privateer Strategic - tactic - logistic operating Air-Naval Operation's in the 7 (seven) Oceans of Word in the 16th - 18th centuries - and 1890 on behalf of the French crown. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:1701:8007:69B0:D8D3:956C:C1E0 (talk) 10:15, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]