Talk:Francine Patterson

"Claims" to have taught Koko sign language?

I don't believe it's debatable that Francine Patterson taught a gorilla sign language. I'm removing the word "claims". Philosophr (talk) 09:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Find one intelligable quote from Koko that would constitute Language anywhere. "banana me give" would suffice. It makes no sense that you wouldn't be able to find one sentence that would clearly be a case of language, even if you hold the threashold very low, anywhere on the net by now, if she really knew language. Don't take it from me, research it yourself.

I don't mean to embarass you, because you are in good company, including National Geographic magazine. But you are wrong and can prove it to yourself.Chrisrus (talk) 13:11, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't feel embarrassed at all. This is not up for debate. I will go find a quote from National Geographic if I have to. I have watched multiple videos on Koko and she repeatedly uses language. Is it exactly american sign language? No, it's a modified form of gorilla sign language. But, it is sign language none-the-less.

Would "candy give-me" be an adequate suffice to you, for "banana me give"? If so, I have a transcript of her saying just that. "KOKO: candy give-me. (Then Koko reaches for Penny's pocket.)" from [1] Philosophr (talk) 00:36, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Lips fake candy give me. She touched her lips, formed a "fake"-like sign, and reached for the pocket? Chrisrus (talk) 14:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

What's with the anti-Koko/Penny agenda? I don't get it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.153.4.51 (talk) 18:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Just a little thing called "truth".Chrisrus (talk) 22:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Truth? like in the bible? The woman taught a gorilla to speak, something you refer to as an 'animal' instead of a near-human. This kind of thing is threatening to you, isn't it?

I'm not into the bible. I believe some highly social animals like prairie dogs and honeybees do have some kind of primitive grammar that they use. I'm interested in evidence and reason. I can find nothing to convince me that Patterson's claims are true and it wouldn't take much. A simple conversation like those in the book/movie "Congo" would convince me. It would be very easy for Patterson to answer her detractors, but she just ignores them. Don't take it from me, go research it for youself. Let me know if you find anything that convinces you other than more claims. Chrisrus (talk) 06:10, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

=> the question is, what shall we call "language". If we stick to the definition of linguists (for example: Chomsky, Jackendoff, Pinker etc.), this would NOT be called Language. Koko learned Signs of ASL to communicate.

High school

Patterson attended the University of Illinois High School. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.225.34.156 (talk) 09:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Criticism

Dr. Patterson and her research have been significantly, severely, and notable criticized by her peers. Why is there no mention of it here? Rklawton (talk) 14:21, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Please go ahead and fix the problem. Can you please find the papers in reply to hers, as well as anything else along those lines? Thanks and happy editing! Chrisrus (talk) 06:05, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Credible Evidence

None exists to support Francine Patterson's claims. She interprets Koko as saying what she wants people to believe Koko has said. The evidence suggests the gorilla just acts certain ways to get a treat. This is no different than teaching a dog to fetch a ball in return for a treat and I doubt any sensible person would interpret that as the dog communicating in sign language. All of the articles about Koko have been in consumer magazines without any peer-reviewed research at all. Why are the claims of this charlatan treated as fact when they have no more credibility than the claims of 9/11 "truthers"? Kdb1965 (talk) 07:20, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Because you have yet to edit the article. Chrisrus (talk) 07:10, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Facts presented lack citation throughout the article. The only two references included are unreliable sources (e.g. promotional posts and press releases), independent sources are needed. Undoubtedly, there are criticisms about Patterson’s work, but should be included in a balanced manner and citing reliable sources. Reputable publishers share the general consensus that Patterson’s work focused on a life study of communicating with gorillas. Criticisms or controversies should be noted as such. Allegories 63 (talk) 03:52, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

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