Talk:First Families of Virginia

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What about the books[edit]

Hi, 

My understanding is that FFV is a set of books. This is the first I've heard of it being a
genealogical society. Can someone  enlighten me, or might a knowledgeable person
edit this entry?

Thanks.

Anna-leeAton

Anna-leeAton (talk) 23:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC) Anna-leeAton (talk) 23:49, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

why is there not entry for FFX , x being every state? E>G> New Mexico older settlements than Virginia, 1598, also has first families and a genealogical web site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.38.155.134 (talk) 09:02, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Really, it is neither. It is a loose expression denoting the origins of several hundred early Virginia families, who often intermarried and who exerted a disportionate influence on the Old Dominion for many generations. Later, a cottage industry of book publishers and societies were built around the early use of the expression "FFV." (By the way, there is no set criteria for the term. Certain families might consider themselves FFV's, but it is generally agreed that certain families are at the core of the expression: the Lees, the Byrds, the Carys, the Fitzhughs and several others.)MarmadukePercy (talk) 19:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't heard of a book. I thought it was officially a society and to join you had to prove your genealogy back to a first generation settlers in Virginia. I know once you prove this heritage to the society they send you a certificate (I have one). I'm not sure if some names here are being claimed independently. I suppose the society in Alexandria has a registry of official FFV's. BaomoVW (talk) 16:19, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The term First Families of Virginia long preceded any society devoted to such, just as the term 'Boston Brahmin' did. It is a loose expression, and there is no society who arbitrates it. Regards,66.212.78.220 (talk) 20:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This piece needs clarification. It's ludicrous to ascribe the expression FFV to a special society. As is obvious from this mention of FFV's from the Virginia Historial Society, the expression predates any later society which pretends to arbitrate the matter.[1] As the previous poster noted, it's like saying that the Boston Brahmins required admission to a "Boston Brahmin Society" to verify who's who. Within the small worlds of Boston and colonial Virginia, there was little question over the matter. And no latter-day society is needed to establish authenticity. Besides, it was initially an offhand expression, hardly requiring an I.D. check.MarmadukePercy (talk) 22:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the terminology FFV refers in general to the early families and descendents. It may also be used by a society of some of their decendents, but is surely not limited to that. Let's clean this up. Vaoverland (talk) 23:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You're right on the money. Completely agree. Regards,MarmadukePercy (talk) 23:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • A little more digging rveals the society is named Order of the First Families of Virginia, and is located at 5055 Seminary Road, #439 Alexandria, VA 22311. I will "take a whack" at cleaning up the article to clarify the matter. Vaoverland (talk) 23:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I am a Shackelford and I've never heard of an official FFV society. The analogy to the Boston Brahmins is I think exactly correct. This society seems to be something that was set up to mirror such institutions as the Society of Cincinnati, but I have no idea by whom. I'll ask around at dinner tonight if anyone knows anything about it.

I was delighted to see my last mentioned in the article. This doesn't need to be added, but I thought you all would be interested to know that we were French Hugenots in exile in Scotland. "Shackelford" is according to the oral histories I've heard an anglicization of "Jaquelefort." My ancestor Roger Shackelford (whose portrait hangs to this day in my parents' house) apparently jumped at the chance to reestablish the family in the New World.

(BTW, I tripped across this entry via the Thanksgiving page, which is today, and which links the FFV article -- and I was happy to see that article notes the Jamestown Thanksgiving....)

Nice article and well done! IvyGold (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The earliest Shackelford in this country was indeed Roger, but he arrived from Hampshire, England. You will find a great deal of information at Shacklefords, Virginia as well as Shackleford, the small village in Surrey, England, from whence the family name likely derives. There is also more information about the Shackelfords at Orange, Virginia, Keswick, Virginia, Monticello and Monticello Association. Best regards, MarmadukePercy (talk) 16:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nice addition Mrs. Aton. I've been researching family genealogy of my own for s few years now and as I continue to come back to our Virginia roots, I have pursued the vague understandings of the Order of The First Families of Virginia. We descendants/members of the society are often uninterested in this aspect of family history for obvious reasons given social policy today however, I have always been an avid genealogist and amateur historian. I'm in contact with the Honorary Lifetime President of the FFV and can secure his office address for you if you wish (it is different than the Seminary Road Box address). Furthermore, I'd like to add to the list on Wikipedia for the FFV entry and expand on all families we're still close to. Specifically, my Lightfoot family is close to the Spencers, Phillips and Lee families to this day however, living in the State of Virginia really is no option for most of us for obvious reason. One never would find comfort in knowing what ones ancestors left, thankfully with the family's wealth to avoid a nasty American Civil War. Please email me if we may corroborate further in any potential additions to the FFV website. As far as the Lightfoots go, my genealogy documents are in tiptop shape, easy to read (however for the ID protection of families, I'd recommend never publishing the living ones', except for the celebrities', thinkers, leaders, et al., which are all public anyway. Thank you Alexander LIGHTFOOT 23:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexander Lightfoot (talk • contribs)

Deletion of Pocahontas Section, Timeline Issues[edit]

So far from my studies of the FFV, Pocahontas is really rather irrelevant. A lot of the larger families come during the early eighteenth century, and Pocahontas is very early on in the colony's history. The Byrds, Carters, and Randolphs (some of the largest families) all came to the colony in the eighteenth century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olivergecko (talk • contribs) 07:26, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone who makes a claim that the Byrds, Carters and Randolphs came to Virginia in the eighteenth century hasn't begun to do any reading, not even of Wikipedia pieces that state the opposite. You really have no business editing Virginia entries on the basis of such shoddy homework. MarmadukePercy (talk) 06:12, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Order of the First Families of Virginia is indeed a hereditary society[edit]

Since the phrase "First Families of Virginia" forms the principal part of the legal name of the hereditary society "Order of the First Families of Virginia", a Wikipedia article with that title surely should be about that society. Another page could be created, under a different title, for general information about prominent Virginia families, if need be. I have edited this page to focus on the Order of the First Families of Virginia. Underdoor (talk) 12:42, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Or since there's so much confusion about what the term means, maybe there should be a Disambiguation page, title "First Families of Virginia", with links to "Order of the First Families of Virginia" and (for example) "Leading Families of Colonial Virginia" or "Prominent Families of Colonial Virginias". Underdoor (talk) 13:54, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake. I should have noticed that there was already a page titled "Order of the First Families of Virginia", which previously redirected to "First Families of Virginia". I've changed that page to provide information on the society rather than redirecting, and reverted my edits to this page. I've added a disambiguating hatnote to each page. Underdoor (talk) 14:32, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List compiled from Meade, Tyler, and Purvis[edit]

For future reference, the following is a list of FFV names compiled from the reports of Meade (in Notes and Queries),[1] Tyler,[2] and Purvis:

List compiled from Meade, Tyler, and Purvis

Well-meaning or not, new editors frequently add a name to the article's list and link the name to one of the sources even though it does not appear in them. Location (talk) 23:08, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed the "Partial listing of family names" to "Notable families", or rather families that have articles or are linked to the progenitor to Virginia. This will be a more manageable list and will ensure that those listed are referenced and discussed by reliable sources. - Location (talk) 02:41, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z aa ab ac ad ae af ag ah ai aj ak al am an ao ap aq ar as at au av aw ax ay az ba bb bc bd be bf bg bh bi bj bk bl bm bn bo bp bq br bs bt bu bv bw bx by bz ca cb cc cd ce cf cg ch ci cj ck cl cm cn co cp cq cr cs ct cu cv cw cx cy cz da db dc dd de df dg dh di dj dk dl dm dn do dp dq dr ds dt du dv dw dx dy dz ea eb ec ed ee ef eg eh ei ej ek el em en eo ep eq er es et eu ev ew ex ey ez fa fb fc fd fe ff fg fh fi fj fk fl fm fn fo fp fq fr fs ft fu fv fw fx fy fz ga gb gc gd ge gf gg gh gi gj gk gl gm gn go gp gq gr gs gt gu gv gw gx gy gz ha hb hc hd he hf hg hh hi hj hk hl hm hn ho hp hq hr hs ht hu hv hw hx hy hz ia ib ic id ie if ig ih ii ij ik il im in "Questions and Answers". Notes and Queries. VI (2). Manchester, New Hampshire: S. C. & L. M Gould: 244–245. 1989. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laysummary=, |laydate=, |laysource=, and |separator= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  2. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z aa ab ac ad ae af ag ah ai aj ak al am an ao ap aq ar as at au av aw ax ay az ba bb bc bd be bf Tyler, Lyon Gardiner, ed. (April 1915). "The F. F. V.'s of Virginia". William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine. 23 (4). Richmond, Virginia: Whittet & Shepperson: 277. Retrieved February 11, 2011. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |laysummary=, |laysource=, and |separator= (help)
  3. ^ Fischer, David Hackett (1991) [1989]. "The South of England to Virginia: Distressed Cavaliers and Indentured Servants, 1642–75". Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 219–220. ISBN 0-19-506905-6, 9780195069051. Another unlikely 'FFV' was the wayward Pilgram Isaac Allerton, a London tailor's son who emigrated in the Mayflower to Plymouth Colony and resettled in Virginia, ca. 1655, where he married into Berkeley's ruling elite. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |separator=, |trans_chapter=, |laysummary=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  4. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m Purvis, Thomas L. (1997) [1995]. "First families of Virginia". A Dictionary of American History. Malden, Massachusetts: Blackwell Publishers. p. 136. ISBN 1-57718-099-2, 9781577180999. Among the most prominent of these lineages are those of the Bland, Braxton, Byrd, Carter, Corbin, Fitzhugh, Harrison, Lee, Ludwell, Nelson, Randolph, Washington, and Wormley families. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |separator=, |trans_title=, |trans_chapter=, |laysummary=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  5. ^ Scadding, Henry (1987) [1873]. "Biographies". In Armstrong, Frederick H. (ed.). Toronto of Old. Toronto, Canada: J. Kirk Howard/Dundern Press Limited. p. 376. ISBN 1-55002-027-7, 9781550020274. The Robinsons were one of the first families of Virginia where they settled about 1670, before becoming one of the first families of Upper Canada. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |laydate=, |separator=, |trans_chapter=, |laysummary=, and |lastauthoramp= (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)
  6. ^ Reese, William Emmet. The Settle-Suttle Family. Palm Beach, FL: Fisher, 1974.

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Capitals[edit]

I don't think first families should be capitalized. It's only much later that they become something special. Anyone have a problem with me changing it? deisenbe (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

William Farrar direct descendant.[edit]

I would like to know how to join as a member of First Families of Virginia. How do you sign up and show lineage? 2601:200:4001:1AC0:8560:5BBC:222D:6DCA (talk) 17:03, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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