Talk:Esclarmonde of Foix

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Questionable reference[edit]

I see that Die Ketzerin vom Montségur is listed as a reference, but to my knowledge, this is a fictional novel and therefore does not qualify as a reliable source, unless it's being used to reference the fact that fiction has been written about the subject. --El on ka 03:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is listed as a reference in the French article about this person. I ran the French article through a translator and used it as the major basis for this article. I also found additional references in English about her, which I have listed in the references, but I can't speak to whether this particular book is accurate or not because I don't speak French or German and haven't read it. --Bookworm857158367 17:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Elonka is right, "Die Ketzerin vom Montsegur" is a German novel ("Belletristik") and that's all there is too it. The German Wikipedia article doesn't use this novel as reference at all. It is only mentioned under "in fiction". In fact the German Wiki article refers completely to a book by Otto Rahn which is available in an English version here: Crusade Against The Grail Beware, this book is very speculative and mainly based on a German translation of local folklore from Southern France. NordhornerII (Talk) _The man from Nordhorn 23:16, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not a legitimate source[edit]

"One legend has it that Esclarmonde turned into a dove and flew away when inquisitors of the Roman Catholic Church arrived to take her to her execution.[2]" Source: Jordan Stratford (2007). ""Order of Saint Esclarmonde"". egina2.blogspot.com. Retrieved March 18, 2007.

Not a legitimate source. Maybe this legend is referenced somewhere in a legitimate source, but a new age church website is not acceptable as a primary source. The author of the blog is also not a notable authority in the subject and his Wikipedia article, which he authored himself, has since come down.

Also this: "She is also honored in the Commemoration of Saints during the Gnostic Holy Eucharist of the Ecclesia Gnostica, of which Stephan Hoeller is the bishop. The Commemoration of Saints for the Johannite Divine Liturgy of the Apostolic Johannite Church also honors Esclarmonde de Foix."

Ecclesia Gnostica has passed notability standards, but the Apostolic Johannite Church's page was taken down for not meeting those standards.Wikimonster007 (talk) 18:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimonster007 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have returned the note about the dove myth, citing an author who discusses its origin as being with the German medievalist Otto Rahn and his writings concerning the Holy Grail. I also made neutral mention to the use of this story as the basis for reverence in contemporary Gnostic churches, as the fact of that reverence is indisputable. --Em, 67.172.135.82 (talk) 18:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Otto Rahn wasn't really a medievialist, in the sense we understand this term today, amateur medievialist and pseudohisotrian, yes. First he didn't have any education in history, he studied law but never finished his studies. He had great enthusiasm for his subject, and could write nice stories, also was kind of a mystic, and because of this he caught attention of Himmler and because of Himmler and SS he was able to do his research more extensively than without belonging to Nazi elite. All this stuff which with to do Ahnenerbe and Arian mythology for which he worked, is speculative and doesn't measure to the standards of academic studies described as medievialism today. Medivialsim of Rahn were fantaises which were gladly accepted by the Nazis, as they themselves were myth-makers.Bialosz (talk) 22:54, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rewriting ?[edit]

As said in the template at the beginning of the article, this article is unclear and needs rewriting. It seems that there are notes paragraphs included not by Notes but embedded in the article and in the references. I rewrote the article on French wikipedia, adding sources (but in French, of course). I propose to rewrite the present article. I will ask for proofreading. Do you have an opinion about that ? --Tangopaso (talk) 12:01, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --Tangopaso (talk) 19:51, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]