Talk:Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3


Gross overuse of certain words

"...family relocated often..."

"Relocate" must surely one of the most overused words in the history of the English language!

Edit request on 6 December 2013

Matthew steele (talk) 20:18, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. --Stfg (talk) 22:50, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

People of Jewish descent category

I've added Category: American people of Jewish descent; for Dylan Klebold, but in the category page both Harris and Klebold appear; how to do to make only Klebold appear and not Harris? Japanesehelper (talk) 20:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

You can't, because the category is for the article as a whole, not for the individuals in it. My own view is that it's OK to have this category here. What do other editors think? --Stfg (talk) 23:05, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Unless the two subjects are going to be split into their own articles (and I don't advocate this), then I think it's reasonable to include the category because one of them is Jewish, even if the other isn't. Nightscream (talk) 02:45, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

You can go to the redirect page for Dylan Klebold and put the category there. That should add only Klebold to the cat. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 09:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Good point, and actually that redirect page is already in both Category:American Jews and Category:American people of Russian-Jewish descent. --Stfg (talk) 11:56, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2014

94.11.221.39 (talk) 17:43, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Not done: No edit requested Arjayay (talk) 18:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Copyedited requested section

WikiProject iconGuild of Copy Editors
WikiProject iconThis article was copy edited by a member of the Guild of Copy Editors.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles

The section Lawsuits against their families was tagged for a copyedit. I've made the following changes to this section:

  • Clarifying relationships and pronouns.
  • Clarifying the section about additional money being withheld. This section was confusing to me on first read, so I've expanded it a bit with information from the section refs to make it clear who owed what and how much was held back from where. PaintedCarpet (talk) 15:23, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2014

Eminem Mentions columbine in "I'm back", not "the way I am". "I take seven kids from columbine, stand em' all in line, add an ak-47, a revolver, a nine, a mack 11, that oughta' solve a problem of mine, and thats a whole school of bullies shot up all at one time" -Eminem "I'm back" 24.44.224.47 (talk) 21:53, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

What's your source for this? --John (talk) 22:06, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Both songs allude to the massacre. The songs are actually mentioned in Columbine High School massacre in popular culture, not in this article. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 01:50, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Removed fake quote of Eric Harris

I have altered this part:

In May 1998, Harris typed a letter of apology to the owner of the van, saying he was sorry he did it. However, he was writing in his journal at the same time: "Why shouldn't we, the gods, have the right to break into a van that some motherfucker left in the middle of nowhere?!"[citation needed]

The quote, ostensibly coming from Eric Harris, is most likely fake. It was added by some anon in September 2011. A Google test only brings up Wikipedia itself and sites who copied from it. The quote resembles something Harris wrote, but I very much doubt it's genuine. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 18:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2014

94.192.57.15 (talk) 17:30, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 17:36, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Split

This article NEEDS to be split. Columbine and bullying are serious matters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.98.22.31 (talk) 21:24, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Wording change

I don't think the "it remains the highest..." as though daring someone else to top it. I think it could be phrased in a way that states it is the highest without actively daring people to go all frighteners on high school kids. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.181.204.231 (talk) 05:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected Edit Request: Fact that Dylan Klebold was Jewish-American

It's said that Klebold's grandmother was Jewish but the same is true of his mother, making him Jewish. This should be noted somewhere in the article. Also note their plan to flee to Israel was inspired by that fact.--Superfakir (talk) 23:29, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2015

in addition to this, traces of Harris' DNA were found on Klebold's lips and tongue at autopsy.[1] I checked the book by Dave Cullen and there is NO reference to this at all. Please remove this error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:bcc1:fa00:516:cd43:5964:858b (talk • contribs) 20:09, 29 December 2015‎ (UTC) Done. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 21:28, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2016

Under "Background" and "Dylan Klebold" it says [...Dylan his brother, Byron, both...]. I'm sure it should be [...Dylan >and< his brother, Byron, both...]. The sentence is simply missing an >and<. Skyhammer (talk) 03:15, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Done Topher385 (talk) 00:16, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

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There were 15 dead

There were 12 students 1 teacher and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold should be added to the death count because number one they died Aidan n (talk) 04:36, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

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Why are their birthdates not included?

An editor asked on their talk page why they are not listed under births on the dates of their respective births.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:38, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2015

Klebold struggled with and questioned his sexuality, at times self-identifying as bisexual on online profiles.<ref>{{cite book |last=Larkin |first=Ralph W. |date=2007 |title=Comprehending Columbine |location=Philadelphia |publisher=Temple University Press |page=141 |isbn=1-59213-491-2 It is actually on page 165 of Larkin's book. It states, "In addition, Dylan may have been confused about his sexual identity. Dylan presented himself as a bisexual in an online chat room (Columbine Research Site 2003)".

The only reference in the Columbine Documents to Dylan as bisexual is from here - Pages 010438-010440:

CONTROL # 5082

WITNESS: Connors. Mike, DOB/1-12-59 1590 Wynkoop Street #514 Denver. Co. 80202 303-615-5267

INVESTIGATION;

On 9-7-99 CBI Agent Robert Brown received a phone call from an acquaintance by the name of Mike Connors. Connors is a free-lance reporter and a part-time producer of public information shows.

Connors told Agent Brown that he had an Internet conversation and a telephone conversation with Dylan Klebold prior to 4-20-99. Agent Brown prepared a memo reference his phone conversation with Mike Connors, which was forwarded to the Columbine Task Force. A copy of that memo is attached to this report.

On 11-16-99 I spoke to Mike Connors on the telephone reference his reported conversations with Dylan Klebold.

Connors could not recall an exact date, but stated that his conversations with Dylan Klebold took place on a Saturday approximately one to four weeks prior to 4-20-99.

Connors stated that he was in a chat room on his computer. This was a Denver chat room through America On Line. Connors stated that he was viewing personal profiles when he read one that was disturbing. The profile was of Dylan Klebold. The profile read in part that he was a student at Columbine High School, he hated jocks and that he was either anti-religion or anti-Christian, Connors couldn't remember which. The personal quote read that he wanted to kill students at his high school.

Connors stated that he covered the Oklahoma City bombings as a reporter and seeing Klebold's profile concerned him.

Connors sent Klebold a personal message and then had a conversation with him on the Internet.

Connors told Klebold that he had covered the Oklahoma City Bombings as a reporter.

He then asked Klebold why he wanted to kill the students at his high school. Klebold responded by saying that 3/4 of the students deserved to die.

Connors asked him why. Klebold stated that the students had picked on him and that they were mean and judgmental.

Connors stated that he then attempted to explain the impact the Oklahoma City bombings had on the victims, their families and how it ruined so many lives. Connors stated that Klebold asked him a couple of general questions about the Oklahoma City Bombings. Connors stated that Klebold asked about the press coverage and how the bombing affected people.

Connors stated that Klebold also spoke about Eric Harris, Klebold referred to Eric Harris by name and told Connors that he and Harris were lovers.

Connors stated that Klebold also sent him photographs of him and Eric Harris through the computer. Connors told me that he thinks the photos were yearbook photos. Connors stated that he still may have the photograph of Dylan Klebold.

Connors stated that he gave Dylan Klebold his home phone number and Klebold telephoned him on the same afternoon that they had the Internet conversation. When Klebold telephone him, Connors stated that the name Klebold did appear on his caller ID.

Connors stated that during their phone conversation Klebold spoke a lot about his relationship with Eric Harris. Klebold described himself as bi-sexual.

Klebold also asked Connors if he was a Christian. Connors stated "yes," Connors stated that Klebold then "went off on me." Connors stated that Klebold got angry and told Connors that he (Connors) was stupid for being a Christian. Klebold told Connors that the Christians in his high school had been mean to him.

Klebold went on to tell Connors that he admired Hitler.

Connors stated that Klebold wanted to meet him in person, however, Connors decided against it. Connors stated that Klebold sent him a couple of messages over the computer wanting to meet but Connors didn't respond.

Connors stated that the Internet and phone conversations combined lasted 20 to 30 minutes.


Here is the attached memo:

DATE: September 13 1999

TO: Mark Wilson 

     Agent-in-Charge

FROM: Robert Brown 

         Agent

SUBJECT Columbine shooting April 20, 1999

On September 07, 1999, I got a call from an old acquaintance by the name of Mike Connors 303 615-5267. Connors is a freelance reporter and part-time producer of public information shows.

Connors was calling for a favor, however I was unable to help him.

During our phone conversation he volunteered that he had been "chatting" with Dylan Klebold on the Internet prior to the April 20, 1999 shooting at Columbine. The reason for the chat session, according to Connors was that Connors had just finished a PBS story on the Oklahoma City bombing case and he was on the net talking to others when Klebold entered the chat room with a curious interest in Connors' story.

Connors and Klebold became friendly and exchanged phone numbers. Some time later Klebold called Connors and they talked more about the Oklahoma City bombing. Connors believed that Klebold was gay and was "hitting on Connors".

Connors tells me that he has never told anyone, particularly law enforcement, of his encounter with Klebold.

Connors is available for an interview should you wish to talk to him.

If you have someone interview Connors have them see me first as I can provide background on Connors.

    • This information was never followed up & there is NO corroborating evidence for this claim either. So, we cannot say for a FACT that Dylan actually claimed to be bisexual or that this chat with Mike Connors actually took place. Please remove this dubious information. Thank you.

Susan Klebold's memoir

Can it be added that all author profits from Susan Klebold's memoir A Mother's Reckoning will be donated to research and to charitable foundations focusing on mental health issues. She isn't profiting from this. Source = [1]. Thanks.

I don't know why this section is indented. I started it as a New Section.

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2017

Eric and Dylan did not count "one two three" Eric sat in a sitting position then shot himself then after that Dylan lit a molotov cocktail then set alight a table with it then shot himself they died 60 secs between each other British Doom guy (talk) 00:29, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 01:00, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Eric and Dyland were also bullies?

There are some news articles in the web that states that Eric and Dylan also bullied freshmen and "fags" in their school. While it is just a short info it'll help make the Bullying section more neutral (as per wiki rule) if the section mentions the experiences of the two as bullies and bullied. I tried adding it but I did a horrible job and it got deleted. So I decided to put this subject here first for discussion. The links I used is the same USA Today article in the page references. Godzilladude123 (talk) 03:48, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

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Alternate theory on chosen date

The article states that Dylan and Klebold may have chosen April 20 since it was Hitler's birthday. The article mentions that April 19 may have been the date that they originally planned to carry out the attack. It should be noted that the Oklahoma City bombing and Waco incidents both occurred on April 19. Has anyone considered this as a reason for Dylan and Klebold possibly first choosing April 19? Tzittnan (talk) 19:06, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Too much overlap with the Columbine Massacre article?

A lot of this article is the same as what is said in the main article about the massacre: the planning of the masscre, their journals, etc. Thoughts? Cait.123 (talk) 18:51, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. Wikipedia policy states: "A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person." If possible, it seems like it would be most responsible to stringently stick to that rule, since there's documented evidence that giving unnecessary attention to spree killers motivates additional spree killers. I'm not sure why this article even exists.

Connorlong90 (talk) 06:45, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Columbine Shooting Security Camera.jpg

Rationale added. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:43, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

File:Columbine Shooting Security Camera.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a non-free use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

-- Marchjuly (talk) 22:21, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Place of death, Littleton or Columbine?

Currently, both the Rachel Scott and Cassie Bernall articles show the place of death as "Littleton, Colorado" while this one shows "Columbine, Colorado". I think we should come to a mutual agreement on what to call it. MutchyMan112 (talk) 18:39, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

MutchyMan112, see footnote #3 in Columbine High School massacre. Richard 09:28, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Alright, I've changed Rachel Scott and Cassie Bernall to match Columbine High School massacre, thanks. MutchyMan112 (talk) 11:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
You're welcome, and thank you as well. Richard 12:04, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Number of injured

In the info box, for injured it says “24 (21 along with Dylan Klebold/Eric Harris)”. What does this mean? Why two different numbers? †Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 14:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Let me think. It reads as if Dylan and Klebold injured 21 people together and that both injured 24 in total. That would mean that they both injured 3 people by themselves, resulting in a total of 21 + 3 + 3 = 27 injured people. However, according to Columbine High School massacre there were a total of 24 non-fatally injured people. I think it would be safe to say that what's in the infoboxes, looks as not exactly accurate. Then again, there were injured people that were shot independently by both shooters. As I recall, there also was at least one victim that was wounded by one shooter and later killed by the other (but I'm not really sure which victim(s) that was/were). Maybe it's best to put 'Total injuries: 24 (together with ...)' in the infoboxes. Richard 14:45, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Total number of "victims"

Eric Harris should be at 9 killed (including himself) and 13 injured, Dylan Klebold should be at 6 killed (including himself) and 10 injured.

Source: https://schoolshooters.info/eric-harris https://schoolshooters.info/dylan-klebold — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.149.204.0 (talk • contribs) 12:13, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn’t consider the sources provided to be acceptable sources by Wikipedia’s standards. One of wikipedia’s guidelines is that information must be independently verifiably; meaning multiple appropriate sources agreeing on the fact in question. If sources are provided that meet Wikipedia’s standards and are independently verifiable are presented, then the numbers can be changed. †Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 18:42, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Well you can look through all the victims deaths and all the injuries and attribute them correctly to these stats. I've gone through the injured and killed list and added them all accordingly myself.

In other words they aren't the only sources, just the most available/reliable I could find.

That's as correct as it's going to get. Anyway besides that, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold should have an extra number added to their kill/death ratio due to them committing suicide. On other Wikipedia pages depicting similar acts of mass murder they are always included in their total(s).

Just a thought.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.149.204.0 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2018

Under heading "In popular culture", add a listing: "In 2016, the film I'm Not Ashamed was released which followed the life of Rachel Scott up until the shooting. The film included glimpses of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold's lives and interactions between schoolmates. Kreiserj (talk) 05:40, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

 Done, as The 2016 biographical film I'm Not Ashamed, based on the journals of Rachel Scott, includes glimpses of Eric Harris' and Dylan Klebold's lives and of interactions between them and other students at Columbine High School. Richard 06:36, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Elephant Film

The article states that one of the actors in Elephant takes a sip from a glass, but it is in fact a paper cup. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:EC:DF18:5601:DAF:11C9:1810:E6C1 (talk) 14:09, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I've changed the wording. Richard 15:45, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Someone revert that fucking change made on April 9th by improvedwiki guy.

“No evidence.”

No you fucking fool,

Eric was angry, due to the years of hellish experiences, ultimately manifested as a rage for destruction. The bullying made Eric angry, he became reckless, started cutting, drank and smoked like crazy.

“I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things, and no, dont fucking say “well thats your fault”, because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no, no no no, dont let the weird ERIC KID come along oh fucking nooo.” 4/3/1999.

He wasnt a psychopath, but he was a borderline one, the product of social rejection, he wanted to just kill.

As for Dylan, he ultimately just wanted to die and was depressed. His bullying turned his depression not only from inward, but to outward. “You’re gonna fucking pay, for all this shit, and we dont give a shit, because we’re gonna die doing it.” “The lonely man strikes with absolute rage” 1997

Both were opposites, Eric was the epitome of Anger, rage, wrath. Dylan was the epitome of depression, misery, sadness.

Eric wanted to kill, Dylan wanted to die.

Its the psychopath and deprssive, it had nothing to do with parents, guns, music, race, religion, video games, ANYTHING.

It was malicious social rejection.

Go ahead, in their videos, bombs, journals, sites, how many times do they say the words “vengeance, payback, revenge, retaliation, retribution”, infact probably billions. The vilification by cops, the bullying at school, the intensifying of their state by violent games, heavy metal, shooting guns and making pipe bombs. And the numbing of all the pain and emotion through alcohol, smoking and cutting? The antidepressants given to Eric were the cherry on top.

Honestly, how the fuck is it still a mystery to you people why they did it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deutschland55555 (talk • contribs)

Hello and welcome. Please familiarize yourself with WP:RS and WP:OR. If you were writing an essay, your logic is fine, but on Wikipedia we deal in verifiable secondary sources. I personally don’t think we should list motives at all because it is highly debated and it’s not our job to decipher whose version of the motive is correct. I would like to just leave out motive from the info box. Will wait for others to weigh in.
Also, it’s a good idea to read WP:GOODFAITH. Wikipedia works on consensus and discussion, and editors come from many different backgrounds. It’s best to assume good faith and start a collaborative discussion about your concerns instead of a hostile one. You’ll catch more flies with honey than vinegar etc etc. †Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 02:49, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

use of senior pictures

May I use the senior pictures of Eric and Dylan on the Danish Wikipedia?--KAH788 (talk) 13:50, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@KAH788: probably not. These are non-free images, but the English Wikipedia allows for 'fair use'. Richard 15:49, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
@Richard: I understand. Thank you for letting me know —KAH788 (talk) 05:41, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
@user:KAH788 have you tried asking for advice on Wikipedia Commons? They tend to have better technical knowledge related to use of photos. †Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 16:52, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
  1. ^ Cullen, Dave (2009). Columbine. Grand Central Publishing. ISBN 9780446552219. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
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