Talk:Eric Clapton/Archive 4

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5

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Associated acts – George Harrison?

I notice from the article history and talk page archives that the infobox's associated artists field was given a much-needed trim back in May 2015 by Nicknack009. No argument at all with that, but having worked on a few song and album articles where George Harrison's longstanding musical association with EC comes up, I'm surprised Harrison was among those names removed. I appreciate that Clapton has recorded and performed on-and-off with many other acts (Bob Dylan, the Rolling Stones, Ronnie Lane, Elton John – dozens of them). But, in my understanding, the link between him and Harrison surpasses them in terms of the number of shared projects, not to mention notability given the coverage their friendship has received. There are the well-known collaborations (the Beatles' "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", Cream's "Badge") and Clapton played on Harrison's Wonderwall Music, All Things Must Pass, George Harrison and Cloud Nine solo albums. They shared a stage many times, at the Harrison-organised Concert for Bangladesh, for one, at the 1985 Carl Perkins TV special, as well as touring together as part of Delaney & Bonnie in 1969, and as co-headliners in 1991. Aside from Cream's "Badge", Harrison played on Clapton projects such as the first (soon withdrawn) Derek and the Dominos single, "Tell the Truth"/"Roll It Over", and Journeyman. Clapton also played on many of Harrison's productions for Apple Records (albums by Jackie Lomax, Billy Preston, Doris Troy) and appeared in his HandMade Films production Water. Added to that, Clapton served as the musical director at the Concert for George tribute in 2002, and he's inexorably linked with the creation of Harrison's "Here Comes the Sun".

I appreciate that discernment is needed, given the long, long list that was there before, but I'd say George Harrison is worthy of inclusion. Any thoughts? JG66 (talk) 12:39, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

This was discussed here. My rationale was to reduce it to (a) bands Clapton has been a member of, and (b) artists he has recorded albums with (basically, JJ Cale and BB King). That leaves out artists he has appeared on stage with (which would be nearly infinite), artists whose albums he has made (credited or uncredited) appearances on, and ad hoc one off "bands" like the Dirty Mac. I do agree that George Harrison has a good case for inclusion based on the large number of such minor collaborations over time. Anybody else have any opinions? I'll tag Ojorojo and Binksternet as they were involved in the discussion. --Nicknack009 (talk) 13:45, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
This news item adds another reason to list Harrison. At Template:Infobox_musical_artist#associated_acts, the instructions allow us to list an act that "has collaborated on multiple occasions", so I think we can set the bar of "multiple occasions" to a level where Harrison is included, but less frequent collaborations are not. Binksternet (talk) 14:22, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Harrison and Clapton toured Japan together in 1991, which produced Live in Japan. So, the "recorded an album with" is arguably met. Along with JG66 and Binksternet's reasoning, I'd say yes. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for the speedy replies. And for that recently announced collaboration, Binksternet (honestly, I wasn't trying to come up with a definitive list!) JG66 (talk) 10:39, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
Surely the fact that they wrote Badge (song) (a UK Top 20 hit) together makes it notable enough? Also, Clapton is included as an associated act on the George Harrison page - seems odd not to have him on here too. Karst (talk) 12:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

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80 Million records

That figure just seems like being plucked out of thin air to me. Do we have more substantial sales figures from anywhere. I mean, the unplugged album sold in large numbers. That would be a good place to start. Karst (talk) 11:27, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

An editor added a claim for 100 million [1], and sourced it to HMV. I checked the reference[1], and it does claim 100 million. So I guess the next question is whether or not that’s a reliable source. Willondon (talk) 13:02, 9 June 2016 (UTC) -- Wow, another 20 million sales in less than a month!
The article is imprecise in saying 'north of a 100 million'. And it is written by an editor for HMV.com - a company that seels records. Inevitably, the article has a rather promotional tinge. Some chart-related book reference would be good. Karst (talk) 13:14, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

This number of 100 million just can't be found anywhere else. I will research this a little more and find a reliable source. I also find it odd that the HMV site is linking to copyrighted materia.Moxy (talk) 20:53, 9 June 2016 (UTC)l

References

  1. ^ "Eric Clapton's Top 10 Guitar Riffs". HMV. Retrieved 8 June 2016.

I think we should use this source for 80m-claim for Clapton's albums sales estimation (https://ruslania.com/books/938130/eric-clapton-the-world-s-greatest-living-guitarist), it's quite reliable. 114.121.159.77 (talk) 09:00, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

That is a photobook by Chris Welch. I'm not sure how reliable that is. Karst (talk) 10:42, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
It's reliable because that's not a photobook, but the quick summary from Clapton's biography. That Biography is written by Chris Welch, he is a music journalist, reviewer and contributor to The Independent newspaper. It's very reliable and very match with Clapton certification sales total which is around 65 million. Please do not change or revert. Thanks 114.124.28.222 (talk) 02:31, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, but a listing from a Russian bookseller is not sufficient as a reference. We do need some kind of indication where this number comes from. Is it cited in the book? If so, where does it come from? Not doubting the credentials of Mr. Welch, but considering the issues we have had in the past over this, I think we need to be careful about what we can slot in and reach consensus on this first please. Karst (talk) 12:33, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Knopfler as associated act

Besides guest appearances, did Clapton and Knopfler ever tour or record an album together? If not, Knopfler should be removed from the infobox associated acts field. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:12, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

I agree. I would've thought the Rolling Stones is a stronger candidate as an associated act (not that I'm suggesting that they be included). JG66 (talk) 02:37, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Knopfler was part of Clapton's touring band in 1988 and did the European leg of the 1987 tour. He also featured in the 1989 shows at Royal Albert Hall. The two also recorded together for a JJ Cale tribute this year. 09:21, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Clapton is credited on the cover of Brothers in Arms (although this article says that was for the loan of a guitar) Ian Dalziel (talk) 09:57, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Because Clapton played with so many people, I think the bar should be fairly high. The late 1980s performances aren't discussed in the text, which is normally required to support infobox items. Clapton also plays with several others for the Cale tribute album. He isn't mentioned in the Brothers in Arms article. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:25, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
There aren't any strong arguments for retaining Knopfler. If there are no objections, I'll remove his name. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:19, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Honestly, Knopfler's not the only one that should be cut—George Harrison & B.B. King should, too. "Associated acts" does not mean "everyone the artist has ever worked with". Clapton is "associated with" the Yardbirds, Cream, and Derek & the Dominoes because he was a key member of each. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 19:36, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Racist remarks

Given that Clapton's music is black, it is bizarre that Eric Clapton emerges as a racist. The article does not give enough emphasisis to this aspect of his personality. 78.151.30.73 (talk) 13:34, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Articles on professionals should focus on their work and achievements – basically the things that made them noteworthy enough to be put in encyclopedia in the first place. Personal beliefs, while worth mentioning in a separate section, shouldn't be primary focus of such articles. There already is a rather lengthy section about his views on immigration and alleged racism under "Personal life". In fact, it's the longest section there. How would you like to expand it? Piotr Zaborski (talk) 09:07, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
I think the last thing that's needed is more on the subject, given that so many notable music projects and collaborations/guest appearances barely get a mention in the article. It's good that this aspect isn't ignored (as with a similarly controversial aspect of David Bowie's public life), but one feels that it's perhaps being given too much weight already. By "good", I mean in comparison with, say, Paul McCartney, where anything that shows the subject in a less-than-flattering light – even a mention of the outcry at McCartney's perceived role in breaking up the Beatles – is notably absent. JG66 (talk) 10:18, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

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To whom it may concern: don't know where to put it: The sources (94, 95) concerning the story of Clapton's father are wrong dated. Though the websites are from 2007, the original articles are from 1998. And that's why the article itself is wrong: Clapton learned more about his father in 1998. not in 2007. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.31.121.12 (talk) 14:33, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

PICTURE FOR SUBHEADDING

Please add File:Change the World Gold Record.jpg to the "Change the World" part of the article. Thank you. --188.108.34.162 (talk) 19:02, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I would have to oppose this addition as it does nothing for the article. - Mlpearc (open channel) 21:32, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2018

TO BE ADDED IN THE "OTHER MEDIA APPEARENCES (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Clapton#Other_media_appearances)

Eric Clapton played the guitar in the studio record and the video of the song "I Wish It Would Rain Down"[1]. In the official music video, he plays a guitar player and proposes Collins as the singer of the play saying: "He used to play the drummer in a really good band, and when the singer left, he took over" (a reference to Collins taking over the singing role in the Genesis, after the departure of Peter Gabriel).[2]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcY3FH208l8 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Collins#1970%E2%80%931978:_Joining_Genesis Ntropia (talk) 02:39, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Clapton's appearance in another artist's music video, even a friend's, is subject to the same notability guidelines as any other appearance. I can find no reliable sources contemporary with the release of the video that mention Clapton's appearance as more than a passing mention. The I Wish It Would Rain Down article already mentions Clapton. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 15:01, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
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