Talk:Environmentalism of the poor

A fact from Environmentalism of the poor appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 14 June 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the environmentalism of the poor is a global movement arising from local environmental conflicts?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Environmentalism of the poor.

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 02:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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~~... that environmentalism of the poor differs from mainstream environmentalism by emphasizing social justice issues instead of conservation and eco-efficiency?~~ Source: Guha, Ramachandra (1998). Varieties of environmentalism : essays North and South. Juan Martínez Alier (1st ed.). Delhi: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-564317-8. OCLC 40163778.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/American Accountability Foundation

Created by Larataguera (talk). Nominated by Evrik (talk) at 04:13, 26 April 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing: - Two cn issues
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
Interesting: - Hook interest is a bit borderline to me, since it is kind of a basic definition. Do you think you could provide an alternative hook, perhaps some more interesting struggles that came out of the movement?

QPQ: Done.

Overall: (t · c) buidhe 23:16, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've handled the citation issues. Let me know if you need anything else. I don't think this is the greatest hook either. Maybe:

Alt1 ... that environmentalism of the poor could become the most important force for an ecologically sustainable society? Source: Davey, Ian (2009) Environmentalism of the Poor and Sustainable Development: An Appraisal JOAAG 4:1:1

Larataguera (talk) 01:33, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: Do you like Alt1?--evrik ^(talk) 19:07, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure I like ALT1, it seems rather hypothetical/opinion-based. (t · c) buidhe 19:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alt2 ... that environmentalism of the poor is a social movement where impoverished people struggle against powerful state or private interests that threaten their livelihood, health, sovereignty, and culture?Guha, Ramachandra (1998). Varieties of environmentalism : essays North and South. Juan Martínez Alier (1st ed.). Delhi: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-564317-8. OCLC 40163778.

--evrik ^(talk) 20:15, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

or possibly, Alt3 ... that well established ideas about sustainability are contradicted by environmentalism of the poor? Source: Davey, Ian (2009) Environmentalism of the Poor and Sustainable Development: An Appraisal JOAAG 4:1:1

Larataguera (talk) 17:07, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: ? --evrik ^(talk) 17:48, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not convinced, asking for a second opinion on hooks. (t · c) buidhe 18:03, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not a review, but ALT1 and ALT2 sound borderline soapboxy to me. ALT3 gives me the question "by how?" so I don't think that's suitable either. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:50, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Narutolovehinata5, isn't the whole point of a hook to raise a question so that people want to click on it? The answer to that question is in the article. Larataguera (talk) 11:43, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's a fine line between "vagueness that makes you want to learn more" and "vagueness that makes you confused and disinterested", and the way I see it, ALT3 is the latter. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Narutolovehinata5, thanks for that clarification. Would you be interested to suggest an alternative hook for this article? Larataguera (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, as the topic is beyond my expertise I am probably not the best person to ask for a new hook right now, I can really only comment on a hook's suitability. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:55, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alt2a ... that environmentalism of the poor is a social movement that focuses on social justice issues and not conservation and eco-efficiency?

@Buidhe:, what about 2a? --evrik ^(talk) 20:54, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alt4 ... that environmentalism of the poor is one of three types of environmentalism identified by Joan Martinez-Alier? Source: Guha, Ramachandra (1998). Varieties of environmentalism : essays North and South. Juan Martínez Alier (1st ed.). Delhi: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-564317-8. OCLC 40163778.Larataguera (talk) 11:39, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Alt5 ... that the Chipko movement is an example of environmentalism of the poor? Source: Davey, Ian (2009) Environmentalism of the Poor and Sustainable Development: An Appraisal JOAAG 4:1:1 Larataguera (talk) 11:42, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Alt6 ... that environmentalism of the poor is a global movement arising from local environmental conflicts? Source:Martínez Alier, Juan (2005). The environmentalism of the poor : a study of ecological conflicts and valuation. New Delhi: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-567328-X. OCLC 61669200.Larataguera (talk) 11:48, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think ALT6 is fine. It's not confusing nor uninteresting. It contrasts global vs. local, and hints at the relation of environment and economic disadvantage. I looked into the cited source: [1] and the hook is well sourced. The two cn issues (above) have been addressed. I think the nom is good to go. Bammesk (talk) 02:31, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Bammesk: don't forget the green check mark. --evrik ^(talk) 03:16, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

done. Bammesk (talk) 03:50, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from New Page Review process[edit]

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Nice work.

North8000 (talk) 12:47, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

March 2023 expansion[edit]

Gollummm, thanks for expanding the article! I moved your two new subsections about "cult of the wilderness" and "gospel of eco-efficiency" into the Background section. I think the added context is helpful. Larataguera (talk) 18:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds perfect to me!

On another note, I plan to add a new section called ''connections between various types of environmentalism'', in which discuss the links between the environmentalism of the poor and the other two currents. I also plan to expand a bit the examples given, if you agree Gollummm (talk) 22:06, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure! Just be conscious of staying on topic. One way to be sure of this is to make sure the sources you're using are specifically mentioning 'environmentalism of the poor'. Larataguera (talk) 01:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind! Gollummm (talk) 22:22, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for your continued work on the article! You may be getting into some original research, because several of the new sources don't mention environmentalism of the poor. I think the relevance is pretty clear, and I'm not too worried about it. But I wanted to point you toward that policy in case you hadn't seen it. You may also be making a few statements that aren't explicitly supported by the sources, but are rather inferred from those sources. This would all be more important on a high-traffic or contentious page.

oh, and it's a minor point, but references go after punctuation. Larataguera (talk) 12:41, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Examples[edit]

Gollummm, if you're interested in adding more examples, consider putting some of them at List of environmental conflicts. I've been working on that list slowly for a while, and it would be great to have help with it. I like the idea of having a much more complete list, but it seems like more than a few examples here might overwhelm the article? And there's a little less risk of original research if we put the examples there, because "environmental conflict" is a more common framework than "environmentalism of the poor". (Though obviously related). Larataguera (talk) 15:22, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Thanks for your advie. I will add those examples to the list of environmental conflicts, and you are right on not overloading the page with too much examples of environmental conflicts. I thnk that now there are more than enough Gollummm (talk) 16:57, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]