Talk:Enemy Territory: Quake Wars

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System Requirements[edit]

These are from the Quake Wars BETA installer, and subject to change, but as accurate a sign as you can get, and better than "Similar to Quake 4's" (these are MUCH higher :( ). HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS: 

CPU:          Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 3.2 Ghz or AMD(R) Athlon(TM) XP 3200+ processor 
RAM:          1GB RAM 
VIDEO CARD:     128MB NVIDIA(R) Geforce(TM) 6600GT or ATI(R) Radeon(R) X800 (full list of supported chipsets below) 
SOUND CARD:     100% DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card 
HDD SPACE:     950MB of free hard drive space, plus 700MB for Windows swap file 
INTERNET:     Broadband connection and service required for full gameplay and downloads.  Features may change without notice.

The recommended are similar, just with a 3.4 P4, and a 6600GTS or X850 videocard instead. On a related note, what the hell is Splash Damage thinking, with these ridiculous requirements most PC gamers can't reach that would be a huge drain of power for most players who CAN run it? For a large-scale multiplayer shooter like this, performance is of utmost importance. :( I attempted to play it, but it refused to launch, saying I was missing support for a number of OpenGL features. 71.185.137.90 04:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Probably depends on where you're living. Here, the cheapest boxes from the local walmart-counterpart fulfill the specs. Besides, I got the beta running well on a machine below those specs. Can't see how those requirements are "ridiculous". --10:22, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I have my doubts about the actual System Requirements of the game, some have rumored that they mimic or even succeed in under requiring Doom3, Quake4, etc.... This is the BETA, they're going to want High Performance machines to test the game. And I disagree with your definition of Gamers, gamers are people who live and breathe gaming, they build a system for one purpose, games, and playing them. These specs aren't asking a whole lot. Now I don't know anymore than you guys do but when I hear that this game will be running on an "optimized" Doom 3 engine, it makes me think it's going to take around the same or even less resources (CPU, RAM consumption, HD Space, GPU power) of Quake 4 or Doom 3. I would put my money on something more along the lines of these system specs for this game. 

            Quake 4 System Requirements
 CPU: Pentium 4 2GHz or AMD Athlon XP 1.8GHz or better
 RAM: 512MB of RAM (I would bet an old 256MB would run this, just not well)
 GPU: ATi Radeon 9500 and up/ nVidia Geforce 3 and up
 HD: 5GB of space.
 Internet: Broadband, or push your luck on 56k

It's easy to mistake what the "real" requirements are for a game, normally anymore it's taken as "this is what you need to get 30+ Frames per second. A system with an Athlon XP 1.8GHz CPU, 256MB of RAM, and a Radeon 9500 is most likely going to be able to "RUN" the game, but it'll scoot by on the bare minimum. I thought I ought to throw in my 2 cents, like I said, I could be all wet here because I don't know anything more than you guys do, just taking an "educated guess" at the situation regarding system requirements. ~Victis_Omega

Edit History[edit]

Cleaned some of the page up, and removed a lot of the empty headline tags. Slinky317 23:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Cross Platform Compatability[edit]

Does anyone know which (if any) of the platforms will be able to play on the same servers?

I believe it was mentioned in one of the IRC chats with the devs, that the systems would all have thier seperate servers. (Not a cross-system game) Not 100% sure though. Iatchi

'evilinc asked: will a PC player be able to play a console player?
'[b]adman answers: pc players and console players will not be able to play on the same servers
From http://community.enemyterritory.com/index.php?q=node/66 (about a third of the way down) --KASanderson 20:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Engine[edit]

QUAKERS, the engine used by ET:QW is the Doom 3 engine, not "MegaTexture". Don't believe me? Look at the SplashDamage official site itself, and you will see it clearly printed: "we are in production of Enemy Territory: QUAKE Wars™ based on the cutting-edge Doom 3 engine" (emphasis mine). Therefore, that is what should go in the "Engine" box. Please stop reverting it. Haeleth 18:50, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, MegaTexture is a technology and shouldn't even be mentioned in the Engine section, by my opinion. It's just a feature of the engine. Xxovercastxx 06:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Imho, it's relevant to include the word modified, but the megatexture feature (as important as it is) should probably feature in the article itself.--KASanderson 21:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More info[edit]

I've got lots of information about this game here from magazines about the engine, vehicles, classes and gameplay, but i'm fairly new to wikipedia i still have to learn about lay out. Could i just give the information here so somebody else could make a good looking article out of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lantern (talk • contribs)

Sure, post whatever information you have in the talk page. Others can put it in for you. We used to have a big section on classes and such, but it was deleted by someone.--Da newb 23:26, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On EBgames for reserving collector edition, one feature is quoted as: "A unique keycode that lets you reserve your username now!" I did some searching on the internet, could not find more information. Anyone have more information on this? --WebSurfinMurf, 10 June 2007 (EST)

There's a fair bit of info on the [1] site - check [2] for a list of retailers. In brief, you get a code through from your retailer that allows you to reserve a character name as yours and preventing others from registering it when the game is released.--KASanderson 13:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a paragraph on the XP rewards system in the gameplay section. Since the unlocks from the XP rewards alter the gameplay significantly, that would be a very appropriate addition for that section. --fatka, 24 September 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 01:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC).[reply]

In-game Advertising[edit]

Some info about the in-game streaming advertisements in this game. This is from developers blog post which you can find here [3] Not sure how to make a new section for it, if someone else can do it to fit in with this page thats fine, just wanting to add more info about this game. --Simbot 14:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the reasons given in the post (see link above) sound quite hollow to me. if someone has more information on in-game advertising in quake wars, especially on the third party checking if and and how long you look at the advertisments, please enlighten us. maybe there is even a way to eliminate/circumvent the mechanism? aren't such advertisements illegal in some countries - any info on that too?
I don't think it's really remarkable enough to be put in the article itself. It's trivial. Xihr 04:03, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

86.15.3.89?[edit]

I find it odd a geust would make an edit like that, so A I safe to assume hes someone who forgot to log in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deuxhero (talk • contribs)

Copyright infringement?[edit]

Isn't a lot of content here copyrighted?

See e.g this and the article content. I spotted even more in the Classes section, in addition to that example in the Vehicles section. Is this quoted unattributed here with permission?

Wikipedia strongly oppose the use of work where the author did not comply to the GFDL license. -- Northgrove 10:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Free?[edit]

Will the game still be free? Some people say it's going to be sold for $39.95 and some others say $0. Still, some say there is going to be a free and paid version. I need some clarification. --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 18:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've never seen any claim that ET:QW will be free. I'm sure there will be demos, but I can't imagine why anybody would think it would be free. The only reason W:ET was released for free was because the single player project was cancelled when the multiplayer part was nearly complete, so they took the extra (relatively minor) effort to finalize the multiplayer portion and released it for free as an act of good will. It wasn't like they were planning on not selling the game in the first place -- and they're certainly making ET:QW with the intention of making money. Xihr 21:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that ET was free is a good enough reason to think if that game was also free. 71.102.74.156 (talk) 06:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was released for free because the commercial project it was to become was cancelled, and Splash Damage was nice enough to polish up the almost-complete multiplayer and release it as an act of goodwill. Quake Wars is not free. Xihr (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

QuakeCon[edit]

Should it be mentioned somewhere that this will be showcased and playable at this year's QuakeCon? --70.129.149.24 06:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Postponed to 07[edit]

The game has been postponed to 2007 to make sure the team meets the 'desired quality' --Jort227 19:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Class types[edit]

I had difficulty understanding the strogg classes, so I added human equivilants next to it. Any problems? Jackpot Den 10:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since someone has deleted the class types I added a short list of each side. Feel free to add on to them. As of now, they aren't that good.--Da newb 23:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Covert Ops radar[edit]

Does anyone know how the Covert Ops radar works? Is it like the UAVs from Battlefield 2? Xihr 20:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Needs screenshots[edit]

Add screenshots please. 67.76.183.192 17:07, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Special Edition[edit]

Isn't the special/collector's edition out for sale already? The enemyterritory.com page has a link on it's home page. --203.99.197.2 13:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is not out yet. The website link might be something for pre-ordering, but ET : QW isn't out yet.--Da newb 14:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Deletion of Sections[edit]

I have noticed that the whole section about different classes and vehicles has been deleted. Why is this?--Da newb 01:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I move to have it restored from a previous edit - Revision as of 19:53, 16 April 2007 by Pkaulf was the last with this extra info in--KASanderson 22:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Having examined the missing content I'm sad to say that it appears to violate copyright as Northgrove suggested and has been lifted from various non-attributed sources. It cannot simply be reinstated as-is and will need a rewrite. The user who removed it appears to have a habit of deleting information, considering it to constitute a game guide but in this case it may have been a blessing. Using Battlefield 2142 as a GA-Class example I believe the information is valid Wiki material and, once re-written, it's presence is valid.--KASanderson 22:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can we please discuss the extra details and stop an edit-war before it starts? Personally, I don't see that class information constitutes a game guide (read the article for what this is actually defined as) and that this article is almost only a stub. Please look at Unreal Tournament 3 and Battlefield 2142 as examples of community-accepted articles --KASanderson 21:33, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Listing things that can only be described as in-game material is game guide material. That includes enemies, techniques/skills, levels, and stuff like character classes. They need a general overview, not a detailed one. Halo: Combat Evolved is what you want to look at for a quality article, not those. TTN 21:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I believe we will have to agree to disagree - I'm afraid that while I agree that game-playing techniques and skills should not be listed on the article (for example, 'the north clock tower is an excellent vantage point for a sniper') details about the game such as classes and vehicles are valuable. Please bear in mind that Halo: Combat Evolved is predominantly a single-player, storyline game as opposed to, for instance Halo Wars and the the articles structures will be significantly different as a result. Does anyone else have input on this? --KASanderson 22:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think that detail as modeled in Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory would not be bad, maybe just a little less. However, we need to wait for it to come out to see what we really need to include, I think. User:kylesandell
I have also cut that article. There is no need for specific statistics or descriptions. TTN 02:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that listing character classes, vehicles, and maybe weapons is a good thing. I disagree with those who say that it makes this a game guide. It is information about the game. Not specific tips and similar information. It is valuable enough content that it should be listed. I wrote a little bit about it that I don't believe was copywrite infringement but it go deleted. If we add it back in it will need editing so it sounds better. The quality of what I wrote wasn't as good as it could be.--Da newb 04:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ESRB Rating[edit]

This game is rated Teen? It would be the first bloodless Quake game if this so.--Deuxsonic 10:30, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The ESRB have rated it as Teen, but I can't cite from them as their site doesn't use perma-links.--KASanderson 22:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the packaging also contains the rating, so it's not really so much whether it's been said as just being hard to believe that a Quake game, with the messy-by-nature Strogg no less, would get a Teen rating.--Deuxsonic 09:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I mis-understood and thought you were asking for confirmation on the rating.--KASanderson 16:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Release Date[edit]

PC version[edit]

Unless someone can cite for the release date edits by 145.48.183.146 I move to roll them back to Q2. I've had a look around and can find no official confirmation of any date that doesn't come from a retailer--KASanderson 16:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted the article and left a message for 145.48.183.146--KASanderson 21:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gamestop dates are not reliable and should not be included in this article. The developer insists that the only release date they're willing to give is "when it's done," as is standard for id projects. The publisher has slated it for Q1 Fiscal 2008 (which is April-July 2007 in the real world). Recent id products have released right before Quakecon, which begins on August 2, 2007. The first fiscal quarter coincidentally ends a couple of days before this, and it seems likely that the companies involved would like to have the game released in time for quakecon, but there is no official word yet on ANY release date.Slemmons 15:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For the sake of keeping the article correct, I've updated the EBGames release date (it was changed this morning.) If people want to pull it I won't strongly object.--KASanderson 22:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Added a section with citations about release dates.

According to Splash Damage themselves, the game doesn't have a specific release date yet. Most people believe that the game will be released anytime from July to September, but in my opinion July is highly unlikely because that would be around a month of notice time, which generally doesn't happen in the game industry. I would change it to Q3.--Da newb 04:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: nevermind my above post. Has already been changed in the article.--Da newb 04:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Console version[edit]

I reverted the latest changes because the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions have already been released and the latest edit said it was to be released. Also the edit reverted the capitalized 'S' in PlayStation 3. Since Wikipedia lists PlayStation 3 with the 'S' capitalized I decided that would be the appropriate way to include it in the article. If anyone feels otherwise feel free to discuss here. --Fatka (talk) 02:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Media format[edit]

I don't know where DVD-DL, Blu-ray Disc snuck in from, but according to the released box art, both the standard and collector's edition are being released on DVD. If someone has more info, please correct me.--KASanderson 22:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

if your the one who removed it then do some research before you remove things the game is going to be released on the ps3 hence the blu-ray format and as for DVD-DL i suspect that is xbox 360 format im not certain

I had forgotten momentarily about the PS3 version, my humble apologies--KASanderson 22:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wolfenstein?[edit]

I realize the first ET was tied to the Wolfenstein series, but this installment certainly isn't. Why is it listed as part of the Wolfenstein series? Xxovercastxx 06:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's a good point, and probably a mistake. Anyone object to it being removed? --KASanderson 21:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Having thought about it - it is a logical progression from Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory, perhaps that [was] what the original author intended? --KASanderson 22:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It has the same gameplay as W:ET, but it's not in the Wolfenstein universe at all, so it's probably not appropriate. Xihr 22:22, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, and from the other side of the fence this must look very strange on the Wolfenstein pages. I've pulled the relevant code --KASanderson 23:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This bears part of the same name as W:ET, and therefore I think it is part of the series, if not chronologically and therefore should be added in there. Jedibob5 20:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I understand what you mean, but Enemy Territory is the game type - capturing areas to progress missions. The Quake and Wolfenstein universes are completely seperate and I feel QW really doesn't fit in the Wolf' series. If we had an Enemy Territory series, they could both go in that. Of course, that is only my opinion on the matter. --KASanderson 22:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the thing they have in common is the gameplay, not the universe. They're both Enemy Territory games, but they're not both Wolfenstein games (just as they are not both Quake games). Xihr 22:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
what they basically have in common is the team creating et and qw --Leladax 16:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It says in the main page that it is a follow-up to Quake4, which is untrue. It's a follow-up to W:ET. It has nothing in common with Quake4, except set in the same fictional universe. Developer and gameplay wise it is the direct descendent of W:ET. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.145.226.49 (talk) 15:21, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Abbreviation[edit]

I made the abbreviation ET:QW redirect to this page for easier viewing. Redsox7897 03:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I had to redo it because ET: was apparently a prefix for a different language, so now it is ETQW instead. Redsox7897 03:22, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
yeah, that's really fucking gay that we can't use "ET:QW" —Preceding unsigned comment added by VTNC (talk • contribs) 02:49, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ETQW maybe, but QW?[edit]

QW is widely known in the FPS community to refer to QuakeWorld, which is a multiplayer addon for Quake I. I haven't seen anyone refer to ETQW as QW yet. Why do we need all the confusion just to shorten an abbreviation from 4 letters to 2?

Abbreviation meanings change over time, and my guess is that QW will be commonly used to refer to Quake Wars - especially once it's released. Chandon 23:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I use the QW abbreviation, and I just call it "Quake Wars" when I'm talking about it. -- FatalError (t|c) 05:44, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

id & SD call it "ET:QW", i'd say that's the official abbreviation. "QW" is only assumed if you're already talking about the game, just like "Windows" is assumed MS Windows if you're already talking about PC computers with a MS OS. Worth noting that on the system's release for, it says "Microsoft Windows" so I'd say saying "ET:QW" should be done. --TheHappyFriar (talk) 13:17, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Netcode[edit]

I found the netcode pretty crappy, as so did a lot of other people in the beta. Can we comment on this? It seems relevant to know if multiplayer games played over the internet employ client side prediction or not.

Doing so would violate WP:NOR. Not to mention you're just indicating your personal opinion at this point, which is hardly encyclopedic. See WP:NOT. Xihr 00:15, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I myself found the Netcode to be vastly superior than most online FPS games. It's been deemed "Area-of-Relevance" and it involves a unique way of letting the CPU know the location of an object or player when you cannot see it, but gives no instructions to have the CPU or GPU render or process effects, Physics, textures until target is visible. This also works with Distance, you won't be able to see the wires in a strogg's stomach from 40 yards away, so no rendering is taking place. Alot of Lag in Online games comes from the CPU and GPU rendering and processing irrelevant Data, I've even heard of Netcodes halting every other cycle on the GPU and CPU till target object or person becomes visible or audible. It also helps players by accuratly reading where you shoot in accordanc with where someone's really laggy would've last stepped, kind of like an estimation. I got most of this information from various articles I've read on the game and I've found it to be true just playing the BETA. However, this could be one of the things that keeps pushing back the release date, I heard they were having problems with something during first BETA (I wasn't able to get in, I'm in BETA 2). ~ Victis_Omega —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.87.96 (talk) 15:00, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Number of players?[edit]

Does anyone have a confirmed the number of players the game support? It would be an usefull addition. Or does it even have a maximum number? Or is the platform dependent? (Psykocyber 14:46, 1 September 2007 (UTC))[reply]

The most I've seen listed is 32. I've also heard that the max number is dependent upon what the map is built for. ~Victis_Omega —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.216.9 (talk) 15:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The maximum per ranked game is 24, as enforced by the latest 1.5 patch. Players aren't map-dependent, I believe the maps were made with 24 in mind. Paril (talk) 04:28, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are still some 32 players severs around. 24 players mas are the only one ranked though.Varlinx (talk) 19:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Clan[edit]

Anyone here part of a clan? Drnoitall.hello 00:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Earthquakers clan has been around since 1996 and has some of the Splashdamage staff in its ranks http://etqw.splatterladder.com/?mod=claninfo&idx=73 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.71.32.112 (talk) 17:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

Both the Splash Damage website, as well as the Steam store page and the icons once installed write "QUAKE" capitalized, so I changed the page to reflect that this is most likely the official way to spell it. Comments? →Nehletalk҉ 13:12, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Quake" is better. The Wikipedia Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters)#All caps and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) say to avoid all caps words, even if the company wants it that way. --Lijnema 13:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I've seen that QUAKE is capitalized on the promotional materials and official text. I honestly don't know what the motivation of this is; the name was not capitalized in any other games or official literature that I'm familiar with. As Lijnema points out, it's a violation of Wikipedia style, so I suggest we use Quake instead. Xihr 23:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both for your comments. I didn't know about the Manual of Style, which clearly disagrees with me here :), so I'll just revert back. And I learned something, too. Thanks again →Nehletalk҉ 18:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. We live and learn. :) --Lijnema 20:17, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think it was just capitalized so it went along with the text. I had a font for Quake 1 a long time ago and all of the lower-case letters were capitalized already. Whether or not it's an ID Software thing or a Splash Damage thing, I don't know, but Quake and QUAKE are the same thing ;) Paril (talk) 04:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ATI Issues[edit]

currently the quake wars developers are working with ATI to fix a problem that crashses the game. I think this is worthy to put in the article somewhere. The patch is version 1.4 which seems to show a very significant modification to the game. It has a tenuous release date of early janurary 2008 (however no announcements have been made so im going to assume its been delayed). Look it up on google for yourself. - Thero —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.70.254 (talk) 09:53, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not warranted, especially if it's going to be fixed soon. This is an encyclopedia, not a news site. Xihr (talk) 22:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But still, its a major issue that has yet been resolved (the patchhas been delayed several times), many of their customers are "out of luck" with the issue for now. Not to mention i think it falls under the pervue of criticisms or reception or bugs or something in the article. There are other articles of games that have similar issues pointed out in the article. Battlefield 2 is a prime example. - Thero —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.70.254 (talk) 04:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That other articles contain such material does not mean it is warranted. Xihr (talk) 05:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't it make more sense that if most other articles have such material and information, that this one would warrent it too? This is information, this isnt an opinion or anything, ATI and Splash Damage has both acknowledged this problem. - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.70.254 (talk) 05:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's not warranted. That's the point: Wikipedia is not a news site. Xihr (talk) 05:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Differences between PC and Xbox/PS3?[edit]

Would the differences between PC and Xbox/PS3 releases be a good idea to include on the page? Paril (talk) 04:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Engine Update[edit]

IMHO, engine should be changed to "Doom3/Id Tech 4". It was known as Doom 3 before Rage was announced as "Id Tech 5" & Megatextures works in Doom 3 (they are being experimented with), so since the original engine supported it it's not worth mentioning it as an added feature. --TheHappyFriar (talk) 13:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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