Talk:Emily Howell Warner

Duplicated material

I am removing this last statement in the article, because it just repeats the planes she has flown, with one exception (Convair 580). I am not able to find a source that documents the 580 at this time. If someone finds such, then perhaps that one can be added in with the others mentioned higher up in the article, instead of reviving this redundant one:

"She has flown the Boeing 737, Convair 580, and deHaviland Twin Otter.[15]" EditorASC (talk) 09:49, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Emily Howell Warner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131004105340/http://www.greatwomen.org/women-of-the-hall/search-the-hall/details/2/193-Warner to https://www.greatwomen.org/women-of-the-hall/search-the-hall/details/2/193-Warner
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140315033626/http://cf.alpa.org:80/internet/alp/2000/jun00p29.htm to http://cf.alpa.org/internet/alp/2000/jun00p29.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121223111211/http://www.cogreatwomen.org/warner.htm to http://www.cogreatwomen.org/warner.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:27, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Firsts

The Bonnie Tiburzi article says that Tiburzi became the first female pilot for a major American commercial airline when she joined American Airlines in 1973. The New York Times said (at http://www.nytimes.com/1973/06/10/archives/fly-me-means-fly-me-women-pilots-trends.html ) that this happened in June of that year.

On the other hand, this article says Warner served for the first time as second officer on a Frontier Airlines Boeing 737 on February 6, 1973. Another page ( http://www.dot.state.mn.us/aero/aviationeducation/museum/aviation_firsts/colorado.html ) said she was hired as a pilot and flew as a pilot on that first flight. All sources that address the point seem to agree she didn't take the controls until she was promoted to first officer six months later.

Also worth noting, in those days, some airlines flew three cockpit crewmembers on 737s even though Boeing had the airplane certificated for a two-person flight crew.

I can't find anything either way about whether Frontier required second officers on its 737s in 1973 to be qualified pilots. Warner certainly was; the article credits her with 3,500 flight hours as a pilot and 7,000 hours as a flight instructor when Frontier hired her, but I've found nothing on when she became type-certified for the 737. And what matters more is whether she was hired to BE a pilot, qualified to take the controls if needed.

So the terminology kind of matters here. It may be that Warner was actually the first female pilot for a major American commercial airline when Frontier hired her in January of 1973, or in February when she flew as a flight-crew member, in spite of the fact that she didn't take the controls until months later. Or the Tiburzi article may be right that Tiburzi flew a plane for American before Warner flew one for Frontier.

But so far there doesn't seem to be enough information from reliable sources in both articles plus the links I've given here to decide exactly what should be said about both women.

Any further input would be welcomed. (Also cross-posted to the Tiburzi article's talk page.) 98.247.224.9 (talk) 07:03, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Also worth noting, in those days, some airlines flew three cockpit crewmembers on 737s even though Boeing had the airplane certificated for a two-person flight crew. I can't find anything either way about whether Frontier required second officers on its 737s in 1973 to be qualified pilots.

The requirement for THREE pilots in early 737 cockpits was imposed by ALPA, in their last ditch and futile effort to make cockpits "safer," (that was the usual justifying ploy, when ALPA officials were demanding any kind of policy, which required MORE ALPA pilots to be employed).

Any airline that was shackled with that labor union millstone was put at a great disadvantage, competing with airlines that were operating the DC-9 and the BAC-111 with TWO pilots. Thus, to make that ploy sound reasonable, the THIRD pilot in 737 cockpits had to be fully qualified as a pilot (commercial license, current instrument rating, etc.), which means that Emily Howell had to be fully qualified whenever she served as the jumpseat crew member in Frontier's cockpits.

The odd part is that when an FAA check pilot wanted to ride in the 737 cockpit, to line check that crew, he always kicked the third pilot out of the cockpit, so he could sit on that third observer's seat. Some Captain's claimed they would not permit that, but none ever actually challenged the FAA inspectors that way. So, it was "safe" to operate that flight WO the third crewmember... EditorASC (talk) 21:57, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Report of death

Reading about her this morning I saw:

"UPDATE: I’m sad to report that Emily has Gone West this morning on the Fourth of July 2020. She has been declining for some time and now is flying on a westerly heading no doubt enjoying smooth air and a bright star to steer by."

This sadly seems to be confirmed by a tweet from the International Society of Woman Airline Pilots that says:

"We are saddened to announce the passing of one of our charter members, Emily Howell Warner. She was an industry trail blazer, and helped prepare a path for the rest of us to follow. She will truly be missed. We will pass along any information as arrangements are made."

Csamuel (talk) 20:20, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

References