Talk:Ely Place

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Exclave[edit]

Many websites mention that Ely Place was administratively part of Cambridgeshire for a long time - apparently, from its construction until the 1970s. It would be good to mention this, but we'd need an authoritative source, and a date for the handover (to Camden council). -- Tom Anderson 2008-01-04 23:48 +0000

It appears to have been part of the administration of London right from the Metropolis Management Act 1855, forming part of the Holborn district. The Isle of Ely article does say it had jurisdiction over the exclave, implying licensing control was lost around 1889 (creation of County of London), but provides no sources. The loss of police control "at the turn of the 20th century" would imply the Police Act 1996 (which states the area of Cambridgeshire Constabulary is Cambridgeshire) or some other similar legislation made that amendment. MRSC • Talk 12:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the licensing bit is definitely a myth. For instance according to James Thorne, Handbook to the Environs of London(1876): (re the Mitre Tavern) Two favoured statements must be denied. There is no underground passage to St Etheldreda's Chapel, and the tavern is not under the jurisdiction of the Cambridge or Ely justices.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the whole thing is nonsense. The Victoria County History of Cambridgeshire and the Isle of Ely doesn't mention it. Looking at 19th century accounts at British History Online, they make no mention of it being part of Cambridgeshire, which is odd if it were. The Liberty of the Clink, which included the town house of the Bishop of Winchester, would be in a similar position. I don't see anyone claiming it is/was in Hampshire.

As far as I can see, the Bishop of Ely gave up ownership at the time of Elizabeth I, and anyway his paltine rights were extinguished in 1837. So claims of the place being under the jurisdiction of the diocese seem unlikely to be true.

The liberty was included in the Metropolitan Police District from the start, but presumably it is in a similar position to Burlington Arcade, which has its own beadles? Doesn't make ir part of another county though.

So probably a bit of half-truth embroidered by a publican in the nineteenth century?

Interestingly enough, someone seems to have asked this question in Notes and Queries in 1900 [1] [2], but you need a subscription to read it. Lozleader (talk) 00:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot I had this on the shelf. From Richardson, J., The Annals of London, (2000):

1280 John de Kirkby buys property in Holborn
1286 He is appointed Bishop of Ely
1290 He dies and leaves the Holborn property to the see of Ely
1577 Christopher Hatton gains lease on part of the land from Bishop of Ely for Hatton House (later demolished)
1772 The entire Holborn estate is sold by the Bishop of Ely to the Crown, and Ely Place is constructed

No mention of special jurisdiction and if there was it would definitely be over in 1772. MRSC • Talk 14:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Commissioners[edit]

I found the following section in the Metropolis Management Act 1855

Special Provision as to Powers of Commissioners acting under 5 & 6 Vict. c. xlviii. as to paving Ely Place, &c.

CCXXXVII.

This Act shall not divest the Commissioners under an Act of the Session holden in the Fifth and Sixth Years of Her Majesty, Chapter Forty-eight (Local), ‘For paving, lighting, watching, cleansing, and improving Ely Place and Ely Mews, Holborn , in the County of Middlesex ,’ of any of the Powers or Property vested in them under that Act, nor shall any of the Provisions of this Act in relation to the paving, lighting, watering, and cleansing of Streets apply to the Parts within the Limits of the said Local Act, nor shall such Parts be assessed or rated under this Act for defraying any Expenses incurred by the District Board for the Holborn District in relation to paving, lighting, watering, and cleansing; but such Parts shall be subject to all the Provisions of this Act relating to Sewerage and House Drainage, and to be assessed or rated for Sewerage Expenses incurred by the said District Board, and for Expenses incurred by the Metropolitan Board of Works, and towards any Sums required to be raised by such Board under this Act, in like Manner as other Parts within the said District.

And this section in the Public Health (London) Act, 1936

75. The provisions of the Metropolis Management Act, 1855 , and of the Metropolis Management Amendment Act, 1862 , specified in Part I of the Second Schedule to this Act, shall, as amended by this Act or by any subsequent enactment, apply for the purposes of this Part of this Act as they apply for the purposes of those Acts:

Provided that nothing in this section shall exempt from the operation of the provisions of this Part of this Act relating to sewerage and house drainage...

(b) the parts of the borough of Holborn to which a local Act of the fifth and sixth years of Her late Majesty Queen Victoria, chapter forty-eight, for paving, lighting, watching, cleansing and improving Ely Place and Ely Mews, Holborn, in the County of Middlesex, extends.

I have located the Act referred to (but not the text):

5 & 6 Vict. c.xlviii: An Act for paving, lighting, watching, cleansing, and improving Ely Place and ely mews, Holborn, in the county of Middlesex. Received the royal assent on June 18, 1842. Lozleader (talk) 13:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]